WIBTA if I invited all my nieces and nephews to my wedding except for one of them?

  1. NTA. If Cindy is neurotypical and does not have mental illness, her parents are not doing her any favors by allowing her behavior. It sounds like your cousin still has issues. But, in the end, if a child is 11 years old and can’t be trusted to behave, they don’t get invited to weddings.

  2. Cindy has major mental issues. They may not be illnesses, but she needs serious therapy. It sounds weird, but she essentially has trauma from what her mom put her through. Imagine being held and perfect for a few years, then dropped into reality.

  3. I feel like everyones already answered enough but I just want to add that this child is not neurotypical. If she is self harming thats not neurotypical behavior. Doctors are very hesitant to give diagnosis of any kind of disorder to kids that young (especially girls, it turns out) but she 100 percent has something and Cindy’s parents need to keep looking for a doctor who will take this issue seriously.

  4. This! Clearly this child is not neurotypical and they need to explore other avenues to help her. Your nta for not wanting her there and totally justified it sounds like, but I would absolutely have a private conversation with your cousin and express your point of view, don't just pull the rug out of send an invite excluding only Cindy without giving her a heads up.

  5. Well self harming is very much something that neurotypical people do too. I think there's more going on for her than has been diagnosed but self harm is not just something only neuroatypical people do.

  6. NTA, but make sure you explain to your cousin why. It may mean your cousin can’t go either. I hope Cindy is getting professional help for her attachment issues?

  7. They've had her in therapy for years, it's gone nowhere. She doesn't cooperate and is super defensive. They've tried several therapists. So at this point they're just trying to support her and hope she grows out of it. I don't really blame her 100% for how she is although she absolutely is in control of how she acts and chooses to act that way. But I don't want it at my wedding.

  8. I totally understand why you don't want Cindy at the wedding, but I think you may have to resign yourself to not having Patrick or your cousin there as well.

  9. I agree. You are of course allowed to invite whoever you want, but the kind thing to do here is to give as much flexibility to your cousin as you can. Someone mentioned inviting them (and Cindy) to an event that is low stakes, like a cake tasting or dress shopping or even just a celebration lunch (and of course warn the poor vendor) and be willing to cut it short (or have your cousin cut it short). Your family knows the situation, and they will understand why Cindy can't be part of the ceremony/reception. But your cousin has also gone through a lot, and if she's a reasonable person, she'll appreciate being involved and invited in some way, especially if the situation with Cindy is causing a lot of forced isolation.

  10. Or do something separately with Cindy and her mum. Like an afternoon tea to celebrate where it doesn’t matter if she shrieks away.

  11. It’s totally fine to call a kid an asshole. The mom is the biggest asshole, it seems like she got what she wanted in all honesty.

  12. NAH. I can't label what appears to be an unwell child an asshole, especially because even if this is entirely behavioural, it's not her fault. And from what you've described, your cousin wasn't well either so no blame there.

  13. I like this. I think it’s is likely that wife could still show up with Cindy anyways, which would honestly be worse. OP should use this framing, only invite cousin and wife and not niece and nephew.

  14. Agreed. Focus on how triggering this event would be for Cindy and end with how knowing how miserable the child would be at your wedding wouldn't allow OP to enjoy the day. Also making sure that it's not a question but a statement.

  15. NTA. Your cousin wanted a Velcro child and she got a Velcro child. That shouldn't effect your family's enjoyment of the day. Cindy is in for a rude awakening one day.

  16. Personallity disorder, that is my guess as well. She will be in so much pain for her entire life, unless she receives effective treatment (DBT skills) and lots of therapy.

  17. NTA. But your probably going to have issues with your cousin. Perhaps talk to her about it before you send out invitations and she finds out that way

  18. She does go to school and she is not able to make any friends, but it doesn't seem like she cares very much, she doesn't care what the teachers think either, all she cares about is being catered to by my cousin.

  19. Yes, my cousin is fully aware of how her extreme mental illness totally fucked up Cindy. I don't blame her for it though because she genuinely wasn't in her right mind and wasn't sane, however the damage was done. She's had Cindy in therapy for years but it hasn't gone anywhere.

  20. NTA. I know you don't want your wedding messed up by the kid. Sadly it isn't her fault and I hope that she is going to get some treatment that will help her.

  21. NTA - this is your wedding day and you seem pretty aware of the distractions that Cindy will cause if she’s allowed to attend. I don’t blame you for not wanting her there.

  22. INFO Why the hell do you place all the blame on Cindy and not your cousin for messing Cindy up? I wouldn’t invite the cousin who fucked up her own kid.

  23. Why would I give the whole backstory of how Cindy ended up the way she is if I didn't think it was relevant? But the reason I don't "blame" my cousin is that she was insane by legal and medical definitions. She wasn't able to control it or become sane until she got sick enough that we were able to involuntarily hospitalize her.

  24. AUTOMOD The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read

  25. I'm not going to give a judgement but if your cousin lives in the US, I would suggest your cousin looking into a children's hospital close by to them to get Cindy checked out by a doctor/therapist. Cindy is not neurotypical.

  26. NTA your cousin ruined this poor child and she needs to take some actions so her daughter can have a normal life. I’d be tempted to invite Cindy and not her mother on a play day just to see how she was away from her mom. She may just need some boundaries and the chance to grow.

  27. NTA That child needs helps. She is mentally distressed. How can someone say she isn't? She needs help to unlearn her destructible behaviors. She has been traumatized. If this isn't a cry for help, I don't know what is. Send her back to therapy.

  28. NTA - I'm sure your family and everyone will understand as they are all fully aware of the situation. Maybe hold a separate celebration of your wedding afterwards that can involve her so she can still be a part of it but your wedding day is about you. Feel bad for this kid though!

  29. NTA- the kid sounds horrid. I had. Similar problem with a certain kid , and my option was to keep the wedding adult only.....

  30. NTA. Actions have consequences and 11 is old enough. Maybe talk to Cindy too, be prepared for tears... But it sounds like this girl needs to cry. I literally had to start walking out on activities with my nephew... But he was 2. It's not her fault, but it's not yours either.

  31. The child self-harms, not just cries. I’m getting the sense the cousin feels afraid to let that happen. I would be too. Idk what I’d do tbh.

  32. As much as it is not Cindys fault, You are NTA. Sounds as if every adult in her life is still enabling her and reinforcing her behaviour will get her what she wants so you setting the boundary in theory is a great step, however be prepared that Patrick will not be allowed to come either :(

  33. NTA but you would also have to exclude your cousin, her husband, and Patrick. Cousin would either show up with Cindy any way or just refuse to come. I also get the feeling that she won't let Patrick participate to keep things "fair" between the siblings if Cindy is not invited. You don't have to broadcast why those relatives are not invited. You can use the excuse that guest list slots are limited and you had to make some tough decisions to give a few elderly relatives to attend what might be their last wedding.....

  34. NAH. This child needs help. It’s great her mom got help, but why no help for her? You can’t exclude her from the wedding, and a hard talk with her parents is needed.

  35. 100% NO, to hell with that kid, just invite the husband and Patrick (who seems like an angel just for not having killed his older sister). Keep the devil and the devil caretaker at home, after all those 2 deserve some time away from them.

  36. The optics of excluding 1 person are bad, but I get it. Don’t include her mom either bc she created this child’s behavior.

  37. NTA. This one was hard to read. Poor Cindy, I really hope that the terrible damages caused by your cousin will be fixed one day. Except for all the stories that include physical violence, your cousin is the worst mother I have ever heard of.

  38. NTA but you are going to have to deal with fallout. You're going to say everyone but the kid and it's not going to go over well. It would be easier (still prep for drama) to not invite their family. Yeah they could get a sitter for her but I doubt they'll like that idea. You know that the reason your niece behaves how she does is because your cousin and her husband allow it.

  39. NAH. It sounds like your cousin struggled pretty significantly with her own mental health issues, and that poor kiddo definitely needs some serious help as how she's acting goes beyond normal 'spoiled brat' behavior and indicates some serious issues.

  40. I am sorry for your families trouble and the child is clearly in real dire straits but I wouldn’t invite her. I’d explain clearly why not to her parents and leave it at that. NTA in my view, it’s ok to have one day where you are not revolving around Cindy

  41. NTA. It's your wedding, you invite who you want. It's not your problem that she can't behave herself. I hope she's in therapy and getting help. She's young enough for this to be fixable.

  42. Can you talk to your cousin about this? Maybe you two can think of a solution, like only having her at the end? Some way that she can be included, but not during the important parts? Your cousin sees her daily and might have an idea for a compromise?

  43. Yikes. Nta but this is a seriously messed up situation. Does Cindy even manage to go to school? I think they need a social services intervention or something. An entire squad of child psychologists. You should sit your cousin and her husband down and talk to them straight forward about your wedding. Im not sure youll be able to get out of this without being villainized by some people but youre in no way possible in the wrong here.

  44. This behavior is terrifying to me. I have an almost three year old, that has typical three year old tantrums. Nothing out of the ordinary and he's been growing out of it little by little. I can't imagine this continuing until he's 11! (and again, just typical tantrums) How have the parents not gone insane yet? How does she go to school?

  45. NTA but you are also going to have to exclude Patrick. You just don't invite your cousin and her family at all. Be prepared for some pushback.

  46. She's been fully evaluated, for all kinds of things. She's had multiple different specialist mental health providers plus her pediatricians as well.

  47. NTA. It would be terrifying walking down the aisle and waiting for an awful shriek for attention. guard your wedding. With all of this who would say you were TA?

  48. NTA but I would recommend leaving that cousin and her family off the guest list rather than inviting her, her husband and their other child while excluding Cindy. I left one cousin notably off the guest list for my wedding because her kids usually cause problems at family get togethers, loud, don’t listen, break stuff, etc. My aunt, their grandma, brought the oldest of that cousin’s kids, without my permission. Whatever, she was around 14 at that time and I figured she could behave herself without her brothers around, and I really didn’t want to cause the drama that kicking her and my aunt out would have required. But she (the cousin’s child) did stick her tongue out at me, because I guess she knew she was not invited. 😂 No other problems from her that day.

  49. NTA I get where you are coming from but people are 100% going to throw a fit about this and it will be a lot of trouble leading up to the wedding.

  50. NTA also I want to commend you for not falling into all the armchair diagnosticians in this thread who are entirely unqualified to be suggesting she has a variety of mental health and personality disorders. Leave the diagnosing to professionals, Cindy’s behaviour is very concerning but it is far beyond Reddit’s pay grade to diagnose an 11 year old they have not met, and do not have the ability to actually diagnose and certainly not the capability to do so responsibly. It is incredibly dentrimental to psychology, to the individual and to everyone who does suffer from each disorder people have suggested above to try and diagnose someone when you do not have the knowledge to do so. I hope Cindy and her family gets the help and support they need and I hope you have a wonderful and stress free wedding! Congrats!

  51. Redditors can't actually diagnose Cindy, but we do know that a child who started self harming at 6 and doesn't use the bathroom all day long because she needs her mom to wipe for her and displays several other unhealthy tendencies, definitely has serious mental health problems whether she's been diagnosed or not. And she clearly isn't receiving adequate treatment either.

  52. NTA but make sure you tell your cousin why. She may get upset and hurt but it’s your day and this isn’t something you need to be worrying about. Maybe even be willing to work with them (maybe have like a test run where you all go to dinner and if she is able to behave then she may get an invite.) while it’s unlikely to work you can show your cousin that you’re not doing this for any reason other than the child’s behavior. As far as the other nieces and nephews go invite them.

  53. NTA. Ultimately it’s your day and there’s no law that says all family members HAVE to be invited. Plenty of people exclude others from important events for much pettier or more ridiculous reasons. And while it seems unfair, and it is, Cindy’s issues prevent her from attending or participating in certain events. That’s just the way life goes sometimes.

  54. NTA leave out the whole cousin, something isn't right with that part of the family. Kids dont behave that way normally, and it sounds like she actually had a version of PPD the first time around that went untreated too. She needs some help but your wedding isnt the place to untangle that.

  55. NTA. But your cousin may be hurt by this since Cindy is her little angel that can do no wrong. This is a tough situation all around unfortunately. Good luck! You are not in the wrong to not want her present.

  56. NTA, but her behaviour is very very typical of female autism. Female autism tends to present more like a combination of adhd and bpd symptoms and is often misdiagnosed as such. Autism is often also very rarely diagnosed in girls before adulthood, it’s very normal for female autists to be told there’s nothing wrong until they get severely worse as teens and develop more anxiety/depression traits due to the stress of trying to confirm to neurotypical norms

  57. NTA, your cousin continues to enable her child and Cindy needs in patient care at this point so there aren’t tools around that she can use to hurt herself when she’s having a meltdown over reasonable requests. I hope the mother will allow Patrick to attend with another relative.

  58. NTA OP but I think you should call Cindy's mom and have a talk with her, and set clear boundaries. If Cindy acts up she needs to leave. Rather than excluding her. I don't know if that would work since I can't see a child being that spoiled because of what happened when she was 3 and under. There is some definite enabling going on there. Do what you think is best. Either way your good, it's your wedding, enjoy it.

  59. INFO are you planning to exclude Cindy specifically or her whole family unit? You can't just invite Cousin's family except Cindy and if there's nothing to distinguish your cousin from other family member who will bring their children then you can't really say that the adults should leave the children at home.

  60. Long story short NTA. It’s your wedding. You don’t have to explain yourself to anyone but the person you are marrying. The two of you are the ONLY people who’s opinions mean a damn thing during that ceremony.

  61. NTA, but Cindy needs a new doctor. That kid is traumatized to hell and back and is obviously mentally ill from it. You're well within your right to not want her there, regardless of her mental health status, but that kid needs serious help from a pediatric therapist and a mental health specialist or she'll end up just like her mom.

  62. NTA. You’re setting a boundary. Your cousin may be upset, but maybe being excluded from the wedding due to her child’s behavior will make your cousin realize that Cindy needs help. Bad. Hopefully she’ll be able to see that if the behavior continues that Cindy will grow up and have an extremely lonely life.

  63. NTA. Honestly, I wouldn't invite your cousin/her family at all. And when asked why, I'd be honest about it. Cindy's behaviour is so disruptive, there's zero chance she would be able to handle attending the wedding or reception without having several outbursts. Not fair to set the kid AND your wedding up for failure.

  64. Can you have an honest conversation with your cousin about it? I mean does she acknowledge this behavior and see it the way you do and understand why you would feel this way? Or does she just look past it and think everyone should accept it? I assume there have been plenty of events ruined because of this right? She shouldn’t even be considering bringing her IMO.

  65. NTA, and I agree with those who are saying that you may have to not invite your cousin as well. Just be ready for a few awkward and honest conversations about why.

  66. Nta, you set the guest list for your wedding so you decide who’s going to be there and any reason that you have is perfectly valid.

  67. First off this poor child needs help and I can’t understand why mom was allowed to finally get help and no one thought that someone should intervene and give that child some therapy. I believe you should extend the invitation out of courtesy and respect however you should lay some ground rules will not be tolerated and have some sort of plan with the family in the event something happens what should be done

  68. I would only invite them to the reception, not the ceremony. Explain that the ceremony is important to you and you don't trust that Cindy can cope with that environment. If they don't agree let them come, but I would talk to them first. They may totally agree with you and be happy with the solution.

  69. NTA. It’s your wedding. If you have a gut feeling something will go wrong if you invite Cindy, you’re right and it will. I don’t think you should invite them.

  70. NTA Not inviting a relative, including children because they can't behave appropriately for a given family event/social occasion is legitimate.

  71. NTA, it's your wedding, invite whomever you want. However, if you do invite all your cousins except for Cindy, be prepared for a shitshow.

  72. NTA- I can see your point and you need to talk to your cousin (Or husband/partner) about it and why she can't be there.. Maybe term it so THEY can enjoy the outing or even give them the choice to not attend. Really sounds like Cindy needs an care facility to deal with her issues from her early years. Has anyone ever taken videos of this girl having her full melt downs so the drs can see?

  73. NTA, I feel really bad for Cindy and as much as you're defending your cousin, Cindy is not getting the help she needs. 5 years of therapy and it's gotten worse but not better and everyone has just given up seems off to me. But your cousin isn't here asking for judgement. NTA for not inviting Cindy but there's no way with the current situation that your cousin can attend without Cindy and a good chance Patrick would not attend either. Also this may damage your relationship with your cousin and other relatives. Just because you're NTA doesn't mean other people won't think you are anyway.

  74. NTA. I wonder if you could do an age cutoff like 12 or 14. That way she's not singled out. Everyone would have more fun anyway without the little ones there. Keep in mind some of your cousins may not come due to lack of a sitter, but that's not on you.

  75. You're NTA, but I would just exclude the whole family as opposed to just not inviting Cindy. I know it sucks that Patrick wouldn't be there, but do you expect everyone else to show up without Cindy?

  76. NTA. If she can get through a school day, she SHOULD be able to get through a wedding. Somebody at school has put together an environment where she can coexist with other children. It's time the kid and mom got the message that this behavior results in not being invited. But from everything you have said, her mother is the problem. The entire family should be in counselling. I'm surprised the Dad has not taken charge of the situation. Home life must be hell.

  77. INFO: Do you have the kind of relationship with your cousin where you could talk about your concerns, have a plan for different reactions to certain behaviors, and explain that you love the family, but you’re also worried about the behaviors being extremely disruptive, too?

  78. Cindy's mother is not back to normal - she is enabling Cindy's shitty behavior, and therefore limiting her social circles.

  79. It seems I’m in the minority here, because sure, your wedding your choice, but I think YWBTA. If you don’t invite her, you should probably have a no kids policy, period, or only invite immediate siblings’ children, or something like that. I know someone on the spectrum, and when their cousin got married many years ago every cousin was invited but him. It’s extremely hurtful. Your niece clearly needs professional help, and it’s certainly not your responsibility or within your power to solve that, but excluding her and only her is cruel.

  80. NTA. dude, if i had your niece i would literally kick her whiny ass out of the family (if that's even possible) i'm horrible with kids and oh dear god i would not be able to handle that. i have no idea how you put up with that. jeez, i feel bad for you.

  81. NTA. But for what it’s worth—Cindy certainly isn’t an asshole either. She was the victim of devastating emotional incest during the most formative developmental periods. She’s not just some annoying twit—she’s a tragedy. Don’t invite your abusive cousin either.

  82. NTA, but you may want to not invite that entire family. It's terribly awkward to leave out a 9 yr old child who has to be constantly supervised. Her mother, at the minimum, would have to stay home with her.

  83. I’m not here to diagnose anything to anyone, especially to a child, but when I read about her behaviour and the poor results of therapy I immediately thought about two possible personality disorders, Borderline or Histrionic. For now I’m not yet a fully qualified psychologist, even if I was I would never diagnose her, but the childhood experience she had it’s a good example of trauma (hyperfocused parents are traumatic too for a child) that could potentially lead to a more serious disorder development later in life. You’re NTA, but I hope that your cousin’s daughter can get help as fast as she can, time it’s not good in cases like this.

  84. NTAH - at the end of of that it is your wedding. It sounds like she would take attention away from you and your groom. Not worth the stress!

  85. Commenting only on your question and not whether the child is mentally ill or not neurological, NTA because I'm sure your cousin, her mother, knows this is an issue.

  86. NTA but I think the situation calls for a careful approach. You might consider having a talk with Cindys parents about the whole situation and get them on board with why she can’t be there (I have no idea if the parents are invited). Then make it look like it’s no kids allowed but let the parents know to bring the kids anyway. This is only my suggestion to avoid drama and ymmv. You don’t have to go out of your way if you don’t want to, Cindy is also not your responsibility.

  87. Cindy sounds a lot like my sister, who at 24, still acts like that, including refusing to shower unless our mother is in the bathroom/bathes her.

  88. Yes a clearly unwell kid who was let down during the formative years of her life is a brat not just an innocent kid that needs help.

  89. NTA. Simply don't invite Cindy's children. You cannot just exclude one. Would Cindy even go without the kid? Have a talk with her, but make it clear that her kid is not invited.

  90. Yikes. I really don’t know here. The kid sounds horrible but you might be TA if you don’t invite her but plan to invite all the others. I am wondering though why your cousin won’t just let her cry and cry and cry until she’s exhausted and refuse to give in at this point. I’m really happy your cousin got the help she needed, but she’s gotta do something about what she created while she was sick.

  91. NTA of course. But you have to be prepared that the parents won’t like it and probably them and Patrick won’t attend either . BUT. Just to add this: reading through your post and your comments you seem to put the blame on the child almost 100%. Therapy won’t work if the parents THEMSELVES aren’t into therapy trying to figure out how to parent the girl. How this girl turned out to be is linked directly to her relationship with her mother the first two years of her life . Your cousin and her husband don’t seem to realise how Cindys therapy isn’t enough if she goes home and they undo everything by giving into everything . They need therapy and they need to work their behinds off to help both their kids

  92. NTA. If that's what you choose to do most people would understand. If it were me I would give a conditional invite to the effect of any person who has a tantrum must be removed for the remainder of the event, hopefully cousin will read that and decide to find a sitter but if not after the first kick off they have to leave and at least there won't be another.

  93. ESH. She doesn’t sound neurotypical to me, but what do I know? I think not inviting her is likely to cause more drama for your cousin, as Cindy is probably going to find out. She may dislike you for this and hold grudges. Your cousin might not be happy with you either and it’ll cause a rift in the family. So it’s up to you to decide which consequences you’d rather face.

  94. NTA. Time kid learned the meaning of consequences. She acts like a fool, she misses out on fun stuff. Her parents have failed her miserably. I don't care how defensive the kid got, she should have stayed in therapy and until she started to behave like anything other than a savage, she should have faced consequences for her behaviour much, much earlier. Make it clear she has brought this on herself, and don't invite her.

  95. N T A- I’d reconsider your relationship with your cousin, someone who would do that to their own kid cannot be a good person. And tbh it looks like it still is that way, and your cousin got what she wanted.

  96. Esh. Your cousin obviously a bigger TA for raising a kid like this and you, for punishing that child. I hope you are also not inviting the cousin, because it is her and her husband's fault that Cindy is like that.

  97. Can mom have a talk with Cindy? Does she even want to go? If so, discuss expectations and consequences. You have to sit quietly. You have to stand at certain times. You have to listen for 20-45 minutes. If you talk, shriek, cry out, run around (whatever she does), we will leave immediately and you will not be able to go to the reception. If you do this at the reception, we will leave immediately.

  98. Yes you would be the asshole and it would be considered bullying. It's you're wedding so you are free to do whatever you want to, but to exclude someone (and a child at that) over something they aren't in control of, is a dick move. And saying that she doesn't have any mental illness is BS.

  99. YTA how would you think Cindy would feel? She probably already knows she’s different from other kids and now you’re confirming it. She would feel hurt for the rest of her life knowing everyone in the family got invited except her.

  100. Damn, if I acted the way Cindy is acting, I would have had my ass whooped. I’m not saying you should, but lay down the law. If it were me, I would have said “enough with your games, brush your teeth!!!” Believe me, if your sousin won’t straighten her behavior, someone else would.

  101. Everyone except Cindy and Patrick are assholes. It took the family 2 YEARS to address your cousin’s behavior. Y’all fucking suck for allowing it to happen. Cindy was abused during the most critical years of her life. Expect to not have your cousin and her family at the wedding if Cindy can’t come. You can invite or disinvite people for your wedding. But holy shit it took you guys 2 years and a 2nd pregnancy to help your cousin. Cindy needs help not judgement.

  102. Despite what some on the internet deem as "clear," she's never been diagnosed with any form of mental health issue and I absolutely won't do so myself if her doctors aren't comfortable doing so, as I'm not remotely qualified and neither is the internet.

  103. Wow! Sounds like you all stood back and watched your cousin without helping. This is very judgmental and self centred from you. What matters at your wedding? Loving your new spouse, or guests? You don’t have to invite her, but you’ll not be helping her- you’ll isolate her further and it sounds like this young lady could be one of those people we hear about who have taken their own lives, and this uninvitation has the potential to be a core memory which adds to this. YTA. Have more compassion.

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