Why is fishing for sport/fun not considered barbaric animal abuse?

  1. Because fish aren’t cute. There’s no logic to it, but they don’t have expressions or gestures that we can relate to our own feelings, so we don’t empathise.

  2. I mean, it's more to do with the mental capacity of the fish. Is there no logic in the fact people don't think twice before killing ants and flies vs a cat?

  3. You haven't spent enough time around fish. They absolutely do - they are just hard to spot. People who aren't looking closely won't notice because they aren't furry and don't have expressive faces.

  4. Well also the fact that they dont die being torn apart by dogs. They suffer inconvenience and perhaps pain for about a minute and then carry on with their lives after forgetting about it after 3 seconds.

  5. They can! I was enjoying fishing once and when I couldn't take one of the hook it was screaming. Haven't fished since.

  6. When fishing for sport, anglers generally work as efficiently as possible in order to minimize harm and pain to the fish, whether through things like not using barbed hooks or releasing the fish that are caught as quickly and as safely as possible. Even though obviously some harm and distress comes to fish no matter what happens, the vast majority of fishermen have some sort of deep respect for them and the places they live and don’t go out of their way to cause unnecessary pain to whatever they catch.

  7. It helps as well if it wasn’t for fishermen (anglers in particular) our rivers would be clogged with crap (clearing fishing sports and up/downstream from them) and monitoring fish health. If you ever wanted to find out about it speak to someone in a tackle shop (I used to do the marketing for one, probably the most informed customer base I’ve ever worked with)

  8. Worth mentioning that anglers are typically one of the most involved groups in conservation efforts for wild fish populations here in the UK too. If you're making an ethical argument against the exploitation of animals as a vegan, then fair enough. Otherwise, there should be no reason for anglers as a whole to receive any hate in this country. The way they operate is very different from fox hunting toffs.

  9. I would love to believe you, but the amount of discarded fishing line I find around the rivers in Oxford makes me believe many of them are just twats. I've had to wrestle a goose to the ground to cut fishing line from its legs.

  10. Christ if our dogs are slaves, they are pretty shitty ones. It’s the other way round I prepare the dogs food, pick up their crap and clean up their vomit.

  11. Some animals should not be kept as pets, pretty much anything that you need to keep in a cage or a tank, or that doesn't benefit from it in anyway.

  12. As an avid fisherman, it is highly frowned upon to take what you will not consume. Certain species are also not acceptable to take, preserved, if you will. A skillful angler will be able to hook them in the lip, which is in fact mostly cartilage with little pain receptors, as does most of their mouth. The pain receptors don’t exist there or they’d starve as they eat crawfish and smaller fish with spiny dorsals. No pain receptors equals survival. Fish known for low survival rates like rainbow trout, there are limits to what can be taken to preserve them, also size limits for proper breeding times, etc. those that don’t follow those rules are shunned and in fact fined by fish and game for “poaching”.

  13. Just because you regulate stabbing a fish in the mouth and suffocating it, either briefly or until death doesn't make it anything other than animal abuse.

  14. As much as I would love to say it is, it isn’t “objectively” wrong to harm creatures for amusement. It’s morally wrong, yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s factually wrong.

  15. My wife’s vegan and someone thought she could eat sliced ham, I think her reasoning was that it was really thinly sliced??? So who knows what goes through peoples heads.

  16. There are plenty of people who claim to be vegetarian but who also eat fish or even chicken. Words have meaning but some people forget that.

  17. I've been vegetarian for about 13 years and honestly the amount of people over that time who have said to me "oh I'm a vegetarian too. But I eat fish" is kinda astounding. I even got into a bit of a disagreement with a work friend once who couldn't understand why I don't eat fish but I'm happy to eat cheese, milk and other dairy products. In her head, fish is the same sort of thing.

  18. It is, to many people. I’d question more why some people think it’s acceptable. But tbf most people are okay with animals being literally raised in awful conditions and then killed so they can have a tasty sandwich so it doesn’t surprise me that people don’t think about fishing being cruel. Humans are inherently selfish and many people believe the world and its inhabitants are ours to exploit and use for our own purposes.

  19. I think it's got something to do with the belief that fish can't feel pain. I'm with you on that but even amongst the vegetarians who eat fish, that's what they say when I ask about it.

  20. I'm sure you're right. But that's just science denial. Anyone can say they don't believe puppies feel pain and therefore say it's fine to kick them.

  21. Fish do feel pain. They have a central nervous system and nerve endings, including in their mouth where they get hooked

  22. Just got home from a wholesome days angling, I’ve been doing it 35 years, my old man taught me and he’s been doing it 60 years.

  23. I think the truth of the matter is that nobody particularly cares enough to campaign against it, myself included.

  24. Many of the species caught for sport are on private man made lakes and likely wouldn’t even be alive without anglers paying to fish the lakes, even fishing in the wild you still need a licence, much of the money that pays for these licenses goes to the conservation and protection of our native species.

  25. It’s been very enjoyable watching the debates in the comments. My take is that I think you’re confusing “abusing fish because it’s fun” with “honing your skill at catching fish, for fun”.

  26. I think that's a fair point/distinction to raise. So would you say that causing unecessary pain/suffering is ok as long as the pleasure isn't directly derived from that suffering?

  27. I've fished since I was seven, so my view is biased clearly, but for me it's about being out in nature. It's relaxing, even when you catch nothing.

  28. Please, I have yet to go fishing, don’t ruin it for me. It’s one of the things I haven’t done yet which I’m most looking forward to doing

  29. It's really not that hard. If you're near freshwater and have access to YouTube, you can learn most of what you need to know in few hours. A cheap set up will cost you £60 max. Granted the quality won't be great but it will get the job done for a beginner. PM me if you want any tips.

  30. Because the proles like it so it's not just a rich man's sport like fox hunting. And as others have said - people don't care about fish the same way they'd care about a cute mammal.

  31. I think it’s a misconception that fox hunting was only for rich people - not for paupers true but still very accessible to the middle classes, albeit only rural ones.

  32. 60+% of UK pork is killed in a CO2 gas chamber. They die screaming (I’ve heard it first hand). Around 5-8 million a year. It’s done primarily in the name of taste-pleasure.

  33. Because it has a purpose. Rifle hunting deer, or shooting game birds for the meat is better than consuming farmed meat. Line caught fish are more humane than farmed.

  34. Angling is a game played by the fisherman against the fish wherein the fisherman tries to fool the fish into thinking that the lure is an actual aquatic animal that the fish normally feeds on. The hook does not just travel into the mouth of an unsuspecting fish against the latter's will, it is bitten on by a fish that has taken the calculated risk to do so. Once hooked, the fish will pull on the line as it tries to free itself; at that point, reeling the fish in and unhooking it himself is not just what the fisherman wants to do, but also the only thing that he can do. To unhook it, he has to briefly take it out of water.

  35. I'm certain that fish feel fear and pain. They also make noises when you're ripping a fish hook from them that they swallowed, and it's not a pleasant noise either.

  36. I'm so happy to read this posted here, I always wondered about this. Just because fish can't scream doesn't mean they can't feel pain. The hooks going through their body feels just so unnecessary. All that just for fun.

  37. I consider it barbaric and abusive. It's a blood sport as far as I'm concerned. A vegetarian though, so make what you will of my crazy notions.

  38. Do the billions of chicks crushed by the egg industry or the millions of calves slaughtered by the dairy industry not bother you then?

  39. well, fish are globally considered a source of food. If it’s considered abuse, I’d be somewhat left perplexed. fishing laws in the US are very clear about catch and release regulations regarding sport fishing.

  40. Thanks. I can't believe the number of people justifying by saying that plants feel pain too so it's ok. One, there is no evidence that plants feel pain and two, even if they do. That just means we shouldn't unecessarily harm plants too. Not that it's therefore ok to unecessarily harm everything.

  41. I don't think talking about whether fish "feel" pain is precise enough - as you point out studies show that they do. I think it's more about how we think they experience that pain. What is it like to be a fish?

  42. Fishing pays for looking after the water ways. Keeps the banks clear and waters clean. Not many fisheries will put up with litter and most fisherman/women look after the fish as want to see them grow so that they can catch them when they are bigger

  43. Humans love eating meat. The only way to feed that on scale is through barbaric means. Fishing on a line is a drop on the ocean. Sure fox hunting is useful for farmers, but people don’t really get that. They think they can all afford giant fences that go 10ft underground. But most of all fox hunting is glamorised with horns, horses and fancy clothes. People know it’s barbaric to kill for what they eat, but they don’t want to think about it - this glamour is far too much attention drawn to the killing.

  44. I went fishing loads as a kid as my parents house is on the beach. We had various catches that we kept as pets (including Eric the lobster, our favourite). Went to a local fishing pond last summer with, holy fuck, never again, kids everywhere giving several half arsed bashes until the parent finally took over. A tin of Tuna is all I'll eat fish wise these days.

  45. There's nothing more boring than sitting on a soggy and damp river bank trying to entice a fish to attach itself to a barbed hook ... who gives a shit if some people consider it barbaric it's the most pointless pastime in the world ... oh by the way it is definitely not a "sport"

  46. I'm seeing a lot of the responses saying that it's for leisure and being out in nature with friends. I get that, but my question is, why not just ...go hang out at the river? Or on a boat? Or take up bird watching?

  47. People like to do stuff while they do stuff, ever noticed how people tend to get chatty when they're doing something else at the same time?

  48. I hate fishing for this reason. I don’t mind people that catch a fish, then immediately dispatch it, then go and eat it. Sure. As long as it’s done humanely, hunting for food is fine. It has a point, and the fish doesn’t suffer. But these lunatics that go out, pierce a fishes face with a steel barb, drag it out the water so it can’t breathe, take some pics with a suffocating animal, rip the hook out and chuck it back in the water, can get to fuck. They say fish don’t feel pain, but I’m not convinced. It just seems like animal cruelty for fun.

  49. Yes, but we generally draw a line at enjoying things that cause unecessary pain and suffering. Big game hunting, dog fighting, bull fighting, playing football with live hamsters etc.

  50. I do consider any sort of "sport" hunting and fishing cruel and barbaric, and I'm someone that feeds my family very often with the fish I catch and the meat I hunt myself.

  51. There is a hierarchy when it comes to animal suffering and if we care or not, from cute and fluffy, all the way down to insects.

  52. It's probably because public disdain for fox hunting is more about the hatred of the upper classes and the idea of posh people wearing fancy clothes riding around on horses than the actual hunting itself. Objectively the fox involved in a fox hunt lives a significantly better life than almost any farm animals consumed on collosal mass. If people were genuinely interested in animal welfare they'd stop eating meat, they wouldn't go and protest a fox hunt.

  53. This is something I've thought deeply on most of my life. I was brought up with a family who fishes, some of which made their living from it. I loved fishing until I was a teen, then - even though I never hurt an animal and always released fish - I realised the horror of it all and stopped completely.

  54. Look in their eyes mate, they have no soul, they eat and flap their limbs. They deserve to be melted in lava along side their family.

  55. i have bigger issues with dickheads who leave their lines in area where waterfowls live seriously its a lazy sport for dickheads who spend the other part of their life drinking and shouting at football matches.

  56. Because fish, like carp suck up rocks all day in hopes there’s food on it then spit the rocks back out. This means that their lips ( which is where the hook goes) have little to no feeling and so does not cause harm to the fish

  57. Lots of fish have receptors in their mouths and jaws. I know rainbow trout have receptors in their lips. I don't know about carp specifically though.

  58. Fishing is the most popular "sport" in the UK and a massive industry that rakes in tons of cash But personally, having lived with coarse fisherman twice, I completely agree with the OP

  59. King Gizzard - Fishing for Fishies is an eye opener. I thought the same, if someone left traps out for squirrels to hook their mouths and said “it’s ok because we unhook them and let them go after”, they’d look like an absolute psycho.

  60. They should stop killing big game. That is not just morally wrong, the big animals are a precious tourism draw of the future. Africa could be a huge tourism destination if managed properly.

  61. I spent quite a bit of my youth fishing in worcestershire. Although I don't regret it as such, it is not something I can bring myself to do. The main reason is that I got into scuba diving and prefer to see fish in the water. I did but a fishung in Greece but couldn't bring myseld to use it.

  62. Gotta say i thought this before. I occaisionally hunt, but consider any form of killing for sport cruel. Hunting for food is natural, most of the animal kingdom do it.

  63. How far do you take the ‘cruelty’ discussion. Is it okay to catch, kill or release a rodent? How many creatures are killed on roads? Is it okay to kill flies and wasps? What about pulling up weeds? Is it okay to kill slugs? Is cruelty different because it’s sport rather than a wasp that might sting me? Is pollution worse or better than Angling? Those that criticise Anglers for being cruel should first take a long hard look at their own activity.

  64. I guess I would take it as far as "I don't think we should deliberately cause unecessary cruelty to anything that can feel/experience pain"

  65. Generally speaking hunters are often some of the greatest custodians of the wild because they depend on it. There are interesting studies about lion hunting grounds in Africa showing the areas where it is legal and licensed to hunt lions actually had much better welfare because the licenses pay for wildlife upkeep. The fishing grounds around Florida too.

  66. My gandad used to love fishing. He always said the fish don't feel the hook, they get put back anyway, and rhey live a decent life... plus hello snacks from the bait. I disagree that they don't feel pain, just cause they don't make a noise about it. N I think fish are adorable. I personally wouldn't fish. Been crabbing alot cause we live by the sea, but that's pretty much crabs just holding onto the bait with their claws, so not really bad.

  67. Think of it as someone ripping a lip piercing out, and probably because while traumatic the fish survives, is thrown back and lives to tell his grandkids about it, a lot of the sports you mention, the animal is killed. The guy kicking his cat, could have killed the cat, the fish will live...

  68. Ok yeah.i don't think we should go around ripping out people's lip piercings for fun either. My cat isn't going to die if I slap it and pull it's hair out by force. I still wouldn't condone someone doing it because they enjoy it or want to enjoy making something out of cat hair

  69. All animal cruelty including animal agriculture is barbaric, why cause harm to any living thing if you can avoid it?

  70. There's absolutely no reason at all. But the UK won't even ban slitting a mammal's throat and letting it bleed to death "because religion" so the chances of banning animal torture in all its forms is fairly slim.

  71. It's interesting to me that you distinguish this cruelty from the process of catching fish to eat. Is the cruelty okay as long as you ultimately kill the animal? Technically the cruelty inflicted on the animal is the exact same, possibly worse and more drawn out with the fish eventually dying. Not trying to be preachy but want to understand the thought process

  72. I understand exactly where you're coming from. I think that for all animal agriculture there isn't really a meaningful difference between the two. Since both cause additional unecessary suffering/cruelty. I would break down my thinking as:

  73. IMO fishing will be the last blood sport to be banned, which I doubt it ever will unless the some research comes out to suggest that fish feel and remember pain in a way that we mammals can relate to. Hunting foxes and coursing hares was banned because the prey was cute, complex and mammalian.

  74. There's a weird separation in people's minds, often people assume you eat fish when you say you're vegetarian for example

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