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220lb+ can leave a big hole exactly like this. Don't forget that nearly all current anti aircraft missiles work by getting as close as possible before detonating its proximity fused war head or in the case of an actualhit the instant contact fuse would trigger war head, the damage is done by the missile fragmentation. So it's usually packed with metal balls or cubes of metal, designed to shred the aircraft or missile its been targeted at. In the case of Russia launching S300's as ground attack missiles there is a similar pattern, the biggest difference is that the ground targets Russia aimed at were concrete and steel targets.
The AA getting as close to the target as possible before blowing up means it must be a seeking missile which means it shouldnt light the fuze unless it detects the target and ground shouldnt be a target… correct me if im wrong
The missile struck an industrial weighing scale, which was used to weigh grain trucks. You take your measurement, subtract the truck's known weight, and you now know how much grain you have for sale. The scale's mechanism is mostly underground, and I imagine there's a lot of open space there, similar to a cellar or a short tunnel. I'd guess that after the missile struck, the scale collapsed in on itself, creating the appearance of a large crater. But I could be wrong.
scales don't have underground services, they are all above ground and you drive onto a ramp to get on them, all the electronics are in an above ground terminal box for maintenance access
That's a lot actually... a 155mm shell has like 23.8 lb according to google and I know they can make some large holes. I guess it probably could be then.
I think the s300 only has a warhead size of 220 to 315 lbs, so probably only half of that is actually explosive the rest is most likely a fragmentation sleeve or preformed fragments
I think theres been a few interesting takeaways that people have brought up that give more credence to the claim that it was more likely to be a stray S300 missile than not:
4: that missile had a full solid rocket engine with more propellant than the warhead weights. The one that impacted in poland was most certainly empty since it flew and those engines burn out completely. Plus possibly other stuff exploding there as well. So no good reference.
Love all the randoms in here with all the buzz words to make themselves sound all official and what not. How about we wait to hear what actual experts have to say when their investigation is finished before all becoming explosion experts ourselves huh?
I don’t understand this discussion or why this is even as big of a deal as it is. I don’t think this was some strategic target Russia wanted to hit and felt kicking off WW3 was worth it. Regardless of who actually is responsible, if you go firing shit off everywhere some of it is bound to end up where it wasn’t intended.
Yo they are shooting ALL MANNER of shit in Ukraine. They just sent Hawk SAM missiles from the 1960’s. There’s no freaking telling what kind of stuff they are firing. Typically there are forensic experts called WITT-CEXE (pronounced Sexy lol) that can determine type, course, etc etc of a missile, artillery, mine, et al and it doesn’t exactly work all the time, but it also usually involves some pretty detailed investigative work.
This was supposedly a grain cleaning facility. Look up grain elevator explosions. Grain dust, in the right air ratio is more potent then a perfect stoich gasoline ratio when you get sparks flying.
To add to what everyone else is sayin, silos are known for being volatile. Slightly flammable fine particulates build up in them and they can easily be set ablaze by just a spark. Plenty of videos out there of farm accidents involving silos that didnt get proper maintenance resulting in fireballs.
I don’t think anyone should really be splitting hairs over the origins of the missile(s). If it’s a Ukrainian SAM it was only in the air at all to intercept a Russian missile being aimed dangerously close to the Polish border. Aimed at civilian targets. Russia shouldn’t get a free pass on this one.
There was no detonation. Look at the tires of trailer and tractor. They're intact. Explosion make thousands of degree Celsius temperature and burn everything. Also no shrapnel damage. I'm sure, if this crater was made by explosion, there would be no trailer nor tractor. It was heavy part with high speed hit the ground. It was part of the rocket or rocket itself. But without detonation.
When an anti-aircraft missile gets close to the target the proximity fuse should detonate the warhead. If the missile can't hit the target and the range to the target is increasing the self -destruct mechanism should detonate the warhead. If both of those fail an S-300 could actually make a large crater like that. It is still Russia's fault though for the incident and they should pay for damages and for the wrong full death of the Polish people.
That could trigger Artikel 5. But its unlikely. I dont think NATO leaders are willing to start WW3 about it. (but as this conflict has shown: predictions can be really wrong)
The Russian used the S300 as surface to surface missiles and they made similar damages so if it was a Ukrainian S300 (which they have) then yes and certain marking (parts number) will be Russian.
Is it possible that it really was an accident by Russia and NATO are happy to play along and say they aren't 100% sure who fired it to avoid being drawn into the conflict.
Here are the specs for s300 missiles : "The original warhead weighed 100 kg (220 lb), intermediate warheads weighed 133 kg (293 lb), and the latest warhead weighs 143 kg (315 lb). All are equipped with a proximity fuse and contact fuse. The missiles themselves weigh between 1,450 and 1,800 kg (3,200 and 3,970 lb). Missiles are catapulted clear of the launching tubes before their rocket motor fires, and can accelerate at up to 100 g (1 km/s2). They launch straight upwards and then tip over towards their target, removing the need to aim the missiles before launch. The missiles are steered with a combination of control fins and thrust vectoring vanes. The sections below give exact specifications of the radar and missiles in the different S-300 versions. Since the S-300PM, most vehicles are interchangeable across variations"
If it was Kh-555/101 with 400-450kg of warhead that trailer would be blown to tiny bits. Check out pictures of how much damage can cruise missile really do. Parts found also suggest S-300 missile.
NATO did not start this. What Russian lies have you been told. NATO is not even fighting yet. Giving some hand me down weapons? Yes. Fighting full force? Not even close.
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Not an expert, but this was big boom
Thank you Dr Traditional-Dog-4471, expect your cheque in 5 working days!
Bigga badda boom
This “crater” was a grain storage ditch before being struck
It’s what we in the online experts field call a Ka Boom
220lb+ can leave a big hole exactly like this. Don't forget that nearly all current anti aircraft missiles work by getting as close as possible before detonating its proximity fused war head or in the case of an actualhit the instant contact fuse would trigger war head, the damage is done by the missile fragmentation. So it's usually packed with metal balls or cubes of metal, designed to shred the aircraft or missile its been targeted at. In the case of Russia launching S300's as ground attack missiles there is a similar pattern, the biggest difference is that the ground targets Russia aimed at were concrete and steel targets.
This is the correct answer.
The AA getting as close to the target as possible before blowing up means it must be a seeking missile which means it shouldnt light the fuze unless it detects the target and ground shouldnt be a target… correct me if im wrong
The missile struck an industrial weighing scale, which was used to weigh grain trucks. You take your measurement, subtract the truck's known weight, and you now know how much grain you have for sale. The scale's mechanism is mostly underground, and I imagine there's a lot of open space there, similar to a cellar or a short tunnel. I'd guess that after the missile struck, the scale collapsed in on itself, creating the appearance of a large crater. But I could be wrong.
That's a fair balanced speculation.
scales don't have underground services, they are all above ground and you drive onto a ramp to get on them, all the electronics are in an above ground terminal box for maintenance access
Do you think it was random chance that it hit this structure?
Ours is above ground where I work, with built-up ramps to get on and off. To your point, it's mostly empty space beneath them, besides the supports.
There is no shrapnel damage and the blast radius looks to be rather small for the cruise missiles Russia was firing.
I don't know much about S300 missiles, but isn't Shrapnel the name of the game when it comes to taking out an aircraft?
According to the internet an S300 has anywhere between 220 to 315 lbs of high explosives in the warhead.
That's a lot actually... a 155mm shell has like 23.8 lb according to google and I know they can make some large holes. I guess it probably could be then.
I think the s300 only has a warhead size of 220 to 315 lbs, so probably only half of that is actually explosive the rest is most likely a fragmentation sleeve or preformed fragments
It was allegedly already hollow under the rails for trucks to dump grain. So the crater may have been partially already there.
That's interesting, where did you see that?
Honestly thats not really a big explosion. If it was big, that tractor and carriage would be in bits.
I think theres been a few interesting takeaways that people have brought up that give more credence to the claim that it was more likely to be a stray S300 missile than not:
4: that missile had a full solid rocket engine with more propellant than the warhead weights. The one that impacted in poland was most certainly empty since it flew and those engines burn out completely. Plus possibly other stuff exploding there as well. So no good reference.
I'm not an explosives expert but here's example of damage done to a house by the S300. Pretty devastating for "just" an anti aircraft missile.
I seen something similar on Twitter, it’s in a summary comment I’ve made. I reckon it probably was an S300.
S300 could do this.
It was actually yur mum doing star jumps
Ah yes, let's ignore data from US radars and first inspection of polish and NATO experts and go to reddit asking if this could be UA AA rocket.
Do you think UA would admit it’s their own rocket? They’ve been vehemently denying that account as Russian propaganda since it happened
Ukraine offered their data, but as of today when Zelensky was speaking no country wanted to investigate it together.
I look forward to the Reddit report.....I don't trust the authorities /s
Love all the randoms in here with all the buzz words to make themselves sound all official and what not. How about we wait to hear what actual experts have to say when their investigation is finished before all becoming explosion experts ourselves huh?
Well to be honest with you, yes. Especially if it was an S-300. Absolutely possible.
I don’t understand this discussion or why this is even as big of a deal as it is. I don’t think this was some strategic target Russia wanted to hit and felt kicking off WW3 was worth it. Regardless of who actually is responsible, if you go firing shit off everywhere some of it is bound to end up where it wasn’t intended.
[удалено]
Yes, absolutely
Yo they are shooting ALL MANNER of shit in Ukraine. They just sent Hawk SAM missiles from the 1960’s. There’s no freaking telling what kind of stuff they are firing. Typically there are forensic experts called WITT-CEXE (pronounced Sexy lol) that can determine type, course, etc etc of a missile, artillery, mine, et al and it doesn’t exactly work all the time, but it also usually involves some pretty detailed investigative work.
This was supposedly a grain cleaning facility. Look up grain elevator explosions. Grain dust, in the right air ratio is more potent then a perfect stoich gasoline ratio when you get sparks flying.
S300 - It sure is.
Considering that the rockets Ukrainian S-300 systems use have a HEF warhead weighing 130 kilograms, yeah, why not?
Definitely looked more like a buried bomb from ww2 that detonated. But I'm just another fucking idiot so don't listen to me lol
To add to what everyone else is sayin, silos are known for being volatile. Slightly flammable fine particulates build up in them and they can easily be set ablaze by just a spark. Plenty of videos out there of farm accidents involving silos that didnt get proper maintenance resulting in fireballs.
This should not be here. Let's the professionals do their job. Mods should remove this post.
Hey man, S300 missiles don't melt tractor beams!
Not combat footage. Post this
I don't agree with you, sub that you mentioned more casual, in this sub amount of people which knows something on topic much higher
When you want to put off WW 3 until you and your doners can pull all of your money out of the stock market, then yes of course it can.
I don’t think anyone should really be splitting hairs over the origins of the missile(s). If it’s a Ukrainian SAM it was only in the air at all to intercept a Russian missile being aimed dangerously close to the Polish border. Aimed at civilian targets. Russia shouldn’t get a free pass on this one.
The question I had was, if the S300 detonates on impact or by trigger.
Heres some footage of a failed S300 actually -
There was no detonation. Look at the tires of trailer and tractor. They're intact. Explosion make thousands of degree Celsius temperature and burn everything. Also no shrapnel damage. I'm sure, if this crater was made by explosion, there would be no trailer nor tractor. It was heavy part with high speed hit the ground. It was part of the rocket or rocket itself. But without detonation.
Zelensky insists that it is not Ukrainian.
Right and he wouldn’t dare lie…
When an anti-aircraft missile gets close to the target the proximity fuse should detonate the warhead. If the missile can't hit the target and the range to the target is increasing the self -destruct mechanism should detonate the warhead. If both of those fail an S-300 could actually make a large crater like that. It is still Russia's fault though for the incident and they should pay for damages and for the wrong full death of the Polish people.
Not in the slightest no. However covering it up is easier than what would come if the truth got out
Google S-300 missile and then think again.
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Cover up
What would we get out of it if it was russian?
That could trigger Artikel 5. But its unlikely. I dont think NATO leaders are willing to start WW3 about it. (but as this conflict has shown: predictions can be really wrong)
Explosive is an explosive.
yes
For sure an "accident"....
Kh-101 ?
The Russian used the S300 as surface to surface missiles and they made similar damages so if it was a Ukrainian S300 (which they have) then yes and certain marking (parts number) will be Russian.
I don't know. I am just waiting for the fireworks. 🚀
Look at what it hit. Loose dirt and wood planks. Doesn’t take much to blow that up.
looks like any other 150kg warhead crater
Ever seen a grain silo explode?
Is it possible that it really was an accident by Russia and NATO are happy to play along and say they aren't 100% sure who fired it to avoid being drawn into the conflict.
That was a grain pit, it was a big hole beneath the I beams.
some S300 missile have a 150 kg warhead, that will make a big boom
Nope.
Here are the specs for s300 missiles : "The original warhead weighed 100 kg (220 lb), intermediate warheads weighed 133 kg (293 lb), and the latest warhead weighs 143 kg (315 lb). All are equipped with a proximity fuse and contact fuse. The missiles themselves weigh between 1,450 and 1,800 kg (3,200 and 3,970 lb). Missiles are catapulted clear of the launching tubes before their rocket motor fires, and can accelerate at up to 100 g (1 km/s2). They launch straight upwards and then tip over towards their target, removing the need to aim the missiles before launch. The missiles are steered with a combination of control fins and thrust vectoring vanes. The sections below give exact specifications of the radar and missiles in the different S-300 versions. Since the S-300PM, most vehicles are interchangeable across variations"
If it was Kh-555/101 with 400-450kg of warhead that trailer would be blown to tiny bits. Check out pictures of how much damage can cruise missile really do. Parts found also suggest S-300 missile.
Two S300 launched by ruskies completely destroyed a big school building that consisted of three blocks. In Mykolaiv.
Does anyone here actually know what an air defense missile is capable of? Or what a cruise missile crater even looks like?
Also have you ever seen a grain dust explosion? It’s possible that also contributed.
Aren’t those missiles pretty big?
An intercepted air missile debris
Bruh, it was a direct Russian attack. Anyone who believes otherwise is just gullible.
There was no explosion.
No ! This is what it looks like when nato doesn't have the balls to fight the fight they started .
NATO did not start this. What Russian lies have you been told. NATO is not even fighting yet. Giving some hand me down weapons? Yes. Fighting full force? Not even close.
Yeah, that hole is pretty small.
A Ukrainian missile yes
Ngl Imma just say it Ukraine because I’d rather not deal with ww3