They did him dirty.

  1. The fact that him beating napoleon in the first place is such an amazing feat, is evidence in itself as to why napoleon is more well known

  2. It does say something about the magnitude and aura of the French emperor when beating an already defeated Napoleon is what you are remembered for.

  3. Napoleon really wasn’t at his best at Waterloo, either. He was evidently sick with the piles when the battle began. He didn’t listen to his marshals during the battle either. I believe it was Soult (who, to be fair, was a woefully inadequate chief of staff) who warned him that an attack in column wouldn’t break the British lines, because he’d fought them in the Peninsula.

  4. well he really didnt beat him because Ney handled the battle on a tactical perspective. Napoleon was only commander on paper

  5. Comparing Napoleon to Wellington is a bit futile after any serious thought. Wellington was a great commander but before Waterloo his only impressive victory was Salamanca. Even though he ends his career one of the best generals ever his record pales in comparison to the freak that is Napoleon who so frequently did the impossible and alone made idiots of Europe 5 times before being beaten and even then was beaten with the general tactic of don’t fight Napoleon. All the while implementing the code Napoleon which is still used to this day as the basis for many countries legal code. Let’s not forget these are Napoleonic wars and without Napoleon Wellington would only be remembered mainly by historians who focus on generals.

  6. As someone who knows very little of history and comes here to learn through the power of memes, thank you for this pithy rebuttal. Gonna have to go and google the Napoleonic Code now...

  7. Napoleon, Alexander, Hattusili, Genghis, Caesar, Ashurbanipal, Khalid Ibn Walid, Eugene of Savoy, and perhaps Tamerlane.......

  8. I haven't seen the film, only the trailer, but isn't the whole point of the meme that the speaker is making a false equivalence? Either way you make a good point, but I hope no one was seriously comparing the short dead French dude with the bloke who gave his name to the king of sports; welly wanging.

  9. Salamanca isn’t his only impressive victory. Victoria comes to mind off the top of my head and there where others. But in general your point stands

  10. To be fair, Wellington himself is quoted to say "I'd prefer a hundred thousand reinforcements for the enemy, to Emperor himself coming to lead his army himself".

  11. And why everyone Forgets Blucher. If he did not managed to outmanuver French and help Weligton, Napoleon could have won (battle, not war lol)

  12. Fun fact I have a many greats grandfather who served under Blucher during Waterloo (I only know this cause we still have records from his journal)

  13. The real problem with the Napoleonic wars is how everyone (and by that I mean the anglosphere) fixates on Waterloo as somehow this grand victory that defeated Napoleon forever. When it was not, nor was Wellington somehow Napoleon's equal.

  14. Exactly, Napoleon himself knew he could not win the war and he was just hoping that winning at Waterloo would force the coalition to just accept him on the France throne. But the coalition would have never accepted those conditions and there were a lot of preparations for other armies to be ready to invade France from other directions, so really winning or losing at Waterloo would have just made the war a bit longer and nothing more

  15. The only thing the British really did against Napoleon was fund the coalitions and maintain Naval supremacy. Its similar to saying the US won WW1 for the allies. We helped for sure, but the European powers did most of the hard work to get to victory.

  16. Well you kind of brought up why it’s so talked about. The anglosphere is going to be most affected by British propaganda. So of course they’re gonna talk about Waterloo more and say Wellington was Napoleon’s equal. It makes them look better.

  17. The war of the Peninsula was probably equally important. Trafalgar and the Nile probably the most important. Also the horsemen of King George aka English gold. I do think the English (and Wellington) played a major role.

  18. He wasn’t even the most famous British commander during the wars. The Royal Navy was the main weapon against France, the army was just an amphibious strike force meant to seize ports and islands.

  19. You think I should have put Nelson instead of Wellington? Well, can't say I don't agree with you now that I think about it.

  20. It's the same thing with Scipio Africanus. You mention his name to the average person on the street and they're like "Who?". Uh... you heard of Hannibal, right? Elephants over the Alps, invaded Rome? Scipio is the undefeated general that spanked Hannibal and the reason Rome wasn't crushed. " Have better heros.

  21. Small difference: Hannibal was at this point relying on young inexperienced conscripts. The campaign in Italy where he was cut off from Carthage and was denied all help he still held his own and won almost every battle and crushed Romes armies multiple times. At Zama Scipio defeated him but it isn't as great of an achievement as waging a successful guerilla war in a foreign country.

  22. Reminded me of that story when Scipio asked Hanninal who the greatest commanders were. Hannibal answered 1) Alexander, 2) Pyrrhus, 3) himself.

  23. He won one battle against an already mostly beaten enemy. Napoleon conquered Europe and is arguably the best field commander in the history of warfare. It took a coalition of every other great power and the Russian winter to defeat him.

  24. Yeah, the final blow was Leipzig, after that he was sure to lose his throne. The only way would’ve been to have a decisive victory against the whole coalition, and his last chance was at Dresden but he didn’t have any cavalry to get that decisive victory.

  25. Think this is a terrible take tbh. Napoleon was "already done at Waterloo" (debatable) because he'd been beaten in the peninsula war, which Wellington played a huge role in winning with major victories at Vimeiro, Salamanca and Vitoria and towards the end of the war Wellington has Soult chased out of Spain back into france. No other general defeated as many french armies as Wellington during the Napoleonic wars. If you'd have told Napoleon the morning of Waterloo that he was already done he'd have disagreed with you. He said after the battle "Wellington ought to have retreated, and not fought that battle, for he had lost it, I should have established myself in France. Wellington risked too much, for by the rules of war I should have gained the battle". Obviously he thought he had it in the bag.

  26. Wrong, Wellington was able to defeat Marmont, Massèna (yes he wasn't in his prime), Bessières, Ney, Jourdan and Soult... I wouldn't say he couldn't compare to his Marshals as Soult is widely seen as one of the best.

  27. Honestly anyone who doesn’t know who Wellington is probably doesn’t know anything about napoleon other than the “dur short French guy” propaganda

  28. Wellington didn't even beat napoleon outright, he's great feat was holding out until Blucher and the Prussians arrived so they could attack him on 2 sides with superior numbers

  29. Napoleon is remembered because he defeated all of Europe, and they had to form a coalition to fight him... and he still won. They then formed a second coalition....and he still won. Then a third...

  30. It seems you’ve fallen for some propaganda yourself. Wellington’s army was smaller and had significantly less guns held it’s own against napoleon and had even repelled the Imperial Guard (which had previously undefeated).

  31. Is that Duke Beef Wellington? Because if he is he got the greatest honor one could get, sharing your name with amazing diner.

  32. One guy defeated the entirety of Europe numerous times. The other guy won one battle against army that was only a shadow of its former self. How the hell does that make Wellington even anywhere close to Napoleon?

  33. That army that was a shadow of it's former self still had 10,000 more men than Wellington and 100 more heavy guns. Napoleon himself admitted that he should have won that battle before bulcher arrived

  34. All you need to do to stop the frogs is stand and fire three rounds per minute. We know you can fire three rounds per minute - the question is - can you stand?

  35. Homie had a horde of Prussians that left French bois army divided and over extended. 1v1 on total war rematch nerd.

  36. It's also the brits' propaganda that mades people to this day still think Napoleon was short, so they can blame themselves

  37. My brother in Christ, have a look at the list of battles Napoleon has won VS Arthur Wellesley. It's not even a fair contest. Winning the last battle doesn't make you an equal, especially if you have the better odds and numbers ;)

  38. Napoleon achieved far more, left a much bigger mark on history and was the better general. Wellington even acknowledged him as the superior commander. That is not to diminish Wellington in any way, he was brilliant, but Napoleon was something else. Had Bonaparte not overreached himself horribly trying to enforce the Continental System who knows what would have happened.

  39. Congratulations you beat the French army at its weakest state, that had no chance of winning the war regardless. Good job I guess...

  40. The guy won because the main tactic was “don’t fight Napoleon” yeah, no wonder we remember one as a great military tactician and… who’s the other?

  41. First of all Waterloo was totally irrelevant. Either way the coalition would've just crushed Napoleon as they had 1 million soldiers at their disposal. Furthermore Marshal Ney handled the tactical aspect of the battle not Napoleon... and did I forget to mention that Wellingtons troops were experienced and battle-hardened while Napoleons troops were mostly young conscripts with little to no experience (excluding the imperial guard). Oh btw Blücher saved Wellington at Waterloo, if Grouchy hadn't failed Wellington would have lost, he himself even admitted it. Ney launched uncoordinated attacks and Wellingtons lines almost broke and only Blücher timely arrival saved Wellingtons army. I don't deny that Wellington was a brilliant general but at Waterloo he wasn't even close to his best while Napoleon let Ney handle the battle. His record in the Peninsular war is far more impressive and even Wellington said that Napoleon was a better General than him.

  42. Napoleon is the greatest military leader of all time, Wellington's best achievement is defeating him. He was certainly an outstanding general but even Wellington knew Bonaparte was better.

  43. Nah it wasn't his greatest achievement. Bringing the Peninsular war to an end and threatening France itself. It also helped persuade Austria to join the coalition.

  44. He’s not even the most celebrated British commander from the Napoleonic Wars in the UK. Nelson holds practically a demigod status.

  45. Wellington not famous outside Britain? Nonsense. I think he's actually too famous, since he wouldn't have won Waterloo of Blücher hadn't shown up in time.

  46. Interesting side story, or maybe not, I lived in a small village in Portugal near Torres Vedras where Wellington's headquarters were located during his campaign here. The building is now a kindergarten.

  47. Do people seriously not know about Wellington? He's like the second name mentioned when you think of military commanders of the time period. Like, I understand people who didn't look at a single history thing beyond social studies in High School, but come on.

  48. yeah, Charles, Schwarzenberg, Blücher, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Barclay, Bagration, Kutuzov, Suvorov and Bernadotte should deserve to be in this meme asking Wellington why everyone remembers him as the one who beat Napoleon

  49. Last time I checked, Wellington did not rise to fame and power almost exclusively on the basis of his merit, and didn't leave a lasting legacy of modern laws across half of Europe... Napoleon did.

  50. Napoleon was also known as not only a military genius, but also as a great reformer and administrator. His Napoleonic Code went to inspire pretty much all of Europe laws, and he single-handely modernised France to great extent

  51. Totally is fair, Napoleon was kicking his ass until the Prussians broke through. Without the Prussians Wellington would be Welling-done.

  52. One of my ancestors was an irish field medic that came to Spain in Wellington's army, Wellington is also pretty well known in Spain.

  53. Ehhh, I'm kinda fond of Wellington (alright, fine, I'm a huge pulsating fan of the Sharpe's Rifles book series. Same thing) and the fact Napoleon is more famous than Sir Arthur seems fair. And holy shit, people will get into actual fistfights about who was better than who at Waterloo, even though you'd think the conclusion about that argument would be self-evident.

  54. The final blow of the Napoleonic empire was the battle of Leipzig. Waterloo was the inevitable consequence of it all: even if napoleon had beaten Wellington that day, he would have never been able to win later and would have finally been defeated. If napoleon had won Leipzig, France would have made a truce and kept its 1791 borders.

  55. He wasn't done that dirty tbh. I'm pretty sure both Marshal Lannes and Marshal Davout were better generals than Wellington. As great as Napoleon was himself on the battlefield, he had some S tier followers.

  56. Well it took Wellington several tries with multiple nations allied with him to take down Napoleon. When it takes a team to take down one guy... Definitely going to remember the solo bad ass, not the leader of the team needed to take him down

  57. I mean I’d argue Napoleon is mostly remembered (apocryphally) for being short. So they both got screwed. Nelson’s the only one who made out decently, and he had to die to do it

  58. Honestly biggest slap is that people call him Wellington as if that’s his name. It’s Wellesley duke of Wellington show the man some respect

  59. Williams and McBride destroyed Mike Tyson, but no one knows their name. Everyone outside boxing knows big Mike

  60. While it is probably unfair that Napolean is much more famous than Wellington, it is not accurate to say that Wellington is not famous outside of Britain. I am not British. I do not know anyone who it British. I have never been to Britain. Yet, I have known who Wellington is since I was a child and almost all the educated people I know know who he is as well.

  61. Napoleon is known for more than his military career though. I think people know about him more for his political significance to European history. Without him history would probably have looked a lot different.

  62. The reason Napoleon is so well remembered is that he had the flair for the dramatic. The battles he fought in Italy and Austerlitz were strokes of unexpected genius that took his opponents off guard. Wellington on the other hand didn’t take a fight to chance he carefully planned and readied his positions and used that to guarantee victory. There was a book I read about him and the author suggested that all three of his greatest victories came from fighting on slopes, Vitoria and Waterloo.

  63. So many Wellington roads, drives, streets all over the place. I think he got a bit of recognition. I grew up in a town with street names like Waterloo but then the next road over would be Wellington. Essentially my town fangirls over this time period

  64. If an undefeated team loses to an entirely defeated team (yes I know Napoleon was not undefeated at this point) it doesn't mean the bad team is now the better of the two because it won once.

  65. I'm going to push back on the idea that Wellington is unknown outside of Britain. Any even casual student of military history knows him and not just for Waterloo. His Peninsula Campaign was masterful. He was an expert in the use of terrain and defeated many of Napoleon's top Marshal's while often out numbered and having to deal with often unreliable allies. His invasion of France while not as important as the other coalition forces was not insignificant and tied up troops Napoleon badly needed.

  66. Could be sue to all the other battles and engagement he/they lost before finally getting lucky at Waterloo….. where ABBA didn’t help when it comes to who we remember ❤️❤️❤️

  67. I would not give the credit to him, most people forget that Napoleon won victories with his Marshalls, at Waterloo Napoleon is very short on his Marshalls, especially Devout.

  68. Yeah he, Radetzky and Moreau created the Trackenberg plan and he defeated Oudinot and Ney at Großbeeren and Dennewitz (thanks to Bülows Prussians)

  69. He sure is famous outside Britain. I have never heard a single swede talk about wellington but everyone knows who Napoleon is

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