Dustin Rhodes: "I'd fought so hard every single year to get to work my brother at WrestleMania. Point-blank, Vince would always say, ‘This match is not good enough to be on Mania.' That pissed me off bad. It was hurtful. It did something to me. It really depleted every ounce of passion that I had."

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  2. It was very underwhelming despite they ran with the idea that Matt killed Jeff’s dog. Dogs in wrestling are never good. But they did have that pretty good I quit match at backlash.

  3. For two guys who spent their entire life either training with, wrestling against, or teaming with each other, Matt and Jeff have horrible chemistry in 1:1 matches (Deletion matches aside)

  4. I never understood why people hate this match. The storyline was dumb but I thought the match was a highlight of the show.

  5. jeff should had gone against edge on a tlc match at that wm, thats a good hill to die on, if vince wants to put triple h at wm just make him feud big show or christian and randy could had fought john at wm, which would mirror previous year wm (rr winner john cena facing wwe champ randy orton)

  6. It's like when Vince said the Jericho Owens match was the worst match in mania history, when it wasn't even the worst match on the card. His idea of what Wrestlemania is is completely at odds with what we often get every year.

  7. Seriously, WrestleMania was 6-8 hours at the time and half of it was filler matches just to get everyone on the card.

  8. Man, the excuses are always hypocritical bullshit. I stopped watching for so many reasons but getting all this info on stuff I missed, looks like I made the right decision at the time.

  9. That’s what I’m saying lol, people are acting like these Mania’s have all marquee matches or something. Like I get it but, 2013-2014(?) one of those years it definitely could’ve been on Mania.

  10. Sports Entertainment fans would rather see Snooki wrestle that the sons of the son of a plumber.

  11. They ran gold vs stardust at the February(?) 2015 ppv with what seemed like an intended long term build. It didn't really work well, or get reactions, despite Cody absolutely killing it in the promos. Both Cody and Dustin really stepped their game up after leaving WWE.

  12. I wish they kept going with Goldust trying to bring Cody from Stardust. I thought it was going to continue that direction, especially with Stardust changing his attire for the Fastlane Match

  13. People were really campaigning hard on this sub for that program to go to WM. It made sense, and Cody/Stardust was doing some really great things.

  14. No match got a great reaction during that PPV it was fastlane IIRC and yeah according to people in the crowd there were reactions, just the acoustics in the stadium stunk hard cause NO one got any real reaction even Austin in his podcast was wondering 'Was the crowd dead or did the sound just not carry well? I got favorite places to wrestle cause it carries sound great, and others I hate for the opposite reason.'

  15. From what I remember nobody got a good reaction on that Fast Lane PPV even Steve Austin wondered if the sound set up was bad on his podcast. I think a large part of it flopping was that people wanted Cody Rhodes not Stardust vs Goldust. Vince was the only person on the planet who thought Stardust was the right call for so long and Cody still didnt drop Stardust after losing at Fast Lane.

  16. The build up was fantastic and I thought the match was great too, was kinda annoyed that the crowd wasn't into it.

  17. Yep, thank you for pointing this out. It’s easy to look back with rose coloured glasses but really it wasn’t very good and I would argue that at the time there was a fairly good argument to not have it at a WM.

  18. I was at this Fastlane PPV (1st ever!) in Memphis and that crowd was just dead for everything except maybe Daniel Bryan and the return of Sting.

  19. Got me back into wrestling that did. Happened to put on a Raw as it was building. The payoff was incredible but WWE has done little (if anything) to match it since. I’ve found other promotions to watch and enjoy though!

  20. Lmao I came looking for the folks that would point out stupider matches. This has to take the cake. Such consistent hypocritical bullshit.

  21. Is that not exactly what Dustin is saying? It's not like Vince tried to come up with an excuse for why he'd love to do the match but couldn't, it sounds like he point blank told Dustin that he wasn't interested.

  22. Does anyone remember Shane’s promo leading up to that? That’s the only thing I remember about the match. That promo was so fucking bizarre lol like he was having a medical emergency while delivering it

  23. If the storyline was Dustin was sleeping with Brandi, I guarantee you Vince would have given it the go ahead.

  24. And then they went to have one of the best matches in AEW history. That should've felt like redemption.

  25. That match single handedly made me a fan of AEW. I was a very casual wrestling fan, and had just gotten back into watching. I had never heard of AEW or the Young Bucks or even Kenny Omega and I had stopped watching WWE when Cody was on. (I had seen Darby Allin and others at a few PWG show I had been to) I was always a fan of Goldust, and when I saw this match I was hooked.

  26. If it's not good enough for Mania then that is a failing of the booking. Cody and Dustin were and AWESOME team in that 2013 run against the shield. No reason to believe they couldn't have had a great singles at WM.

  27. They've done a lot worse, but in reality, two mid-carders having a 1-on-1 match that goes like 7 minutes, would've just been filler on a lengthy Mania show. I get both sides.

  28. No offence to Goldust but if Vince said yes to every wrestlers Mania pitch it would be a 30 hour show.

  29. I don't know that Vince was wrong there, at least from a WWE perspective, since Goldust had been treated like such a nobody loser for over a decade by the time Cody even showed up

  30. During the Shield feud they were one of the hottest acts going. Didn’t need to give Cody that Stardust character and easily could’ve made a story out of a breakup that wasn’t just “Goldust regretfully rolled up Cody.”

  31. I do remember them having a match and the crowd more or less had no reaction. Stardust was an awful gimmick though and by time Cody started making it his own and somewhat interesting it was too late to salvage

  32. Cody vs Dustin was the best match at All In with three YouTube vignettes to change the narrative on Dustin. It was more than possible.

  33. Cody and Goldust beating the shield for the titles was super hot. Just another example of it being the quality of the booking as opposed to the quality of the performers.

  34. You’re right that from that perspective, it wasn’t worth a damn, but it could’ve easily been booked up with both guys having some momentum. WWE has given far more random pushes and far more random matches at WM

  35. And there in lies a problem I was just talking about in another thread. How WWE always treats full time older wrestlers like jokes. Of course no one cared about Goldust anymore. He hadn’t been relevant since he tagged with Booker T. I don’t get it. Why WWE hires older stars only to make them into jobbers is beyond me. I totally get having them give a rub to young up and comers but there is no rub to be gained if they’re booked to be a joke when they return.

  36. Hot Take: If you take the character off-screen for six months and then bring them back then there's literally no amount of history that you can't ignore with a basic "I was off training and finding a new part of myself" promo.

  37. That’s not true - they teamed together and beat the Shield several times. They were over as hell with Dusty behind them.

  38. yeah Goldust was one of those wierd characters that there was only so much you could do with. yeah he's memorable and his time with r-truth was probably his better runs.

  39. At the time I had fantasy booked Cody sinking deeper and deeper into the Stardust gimmick following Dusty's death and Goldust getting concerned for his brother's sanity.

  40. What an interesting story that draws from real life relationships and emotions which could only be told under a very rare set of circumstances. It would provide an interesting dynamic and the potential for an engaging match and moment, propelling one man onto the next stage of his career while giving a beautiful sendoff to a beloved veteran.

  41. This is kinda what my armchair-booking version of the storyline would've been too. Dustin vs. Stardust, maybe you even work in the gradual removal of the facepaint as a story beat. I absolutely respect their position of not wanting to turn Dusty's death into a storyline, but you could've had some amazing drama and a moment I'd say would match the Savage/Elizabeth reunion in terms of legitimately tearjerking soap-opera drama if something like that had happened.

  42. as rubbish as that was it was a gimmick match that had austin in there. people knew at some point he would open the can of whoop ass and someone would be on the receiving end.

  43. When was that? I've been watching regularly for about 10 years, I was astonished by how good he was when he went to AEW.

  44. I think for a match to be great between Dustin and Cody it had to be Dustin vs. Cody, rather than Goldust vs. Cody as himself or as Stardust. They were over as a tag team together, but Goldust the character was too far gone, too irrelevant, for people to really get invested in him as a singles guy. To get a Wrestlemania match they would have needed some kind of storyline that brought Dustin out of Goldust to face Cody, and maybe Dustin was just coasting behind his make up by the time Cody had established himself in WWE, so that’s why Vince could never be persuaded to go for it.

  45. I don't think the WWE crowd would have cared about that match. The one they ended up having had the perfect environment and they had the freedom to go all the way in terms of bleeding.

  46. Even if it was on the show, they woulda gave the match 8 minutes. Their match at Double or Nothing was the best case scenario

  47. I'm not sure any of Cody's WWE personas vs Goldust would really have been mania worthy - maybe the pre-show or now it's two days but at the time that was probably a fair assessment.

  48. Guy, they had a playboy sponsored lumberjill match and a Sumo match with the big show on air. There is absolutely no reason that a Rhodes bros match couldnt have been a part of mania.

  49. I had no clue how good Dustin was until very late in his run. They could have built something after the shield feud, and would have put on a great match, but it’s still Goldust who I wouldn’t be able to take to seriously in the build. Glad they got to do it I eventually with AEW, especially with the goofy gimmicks stripped away.

  50. That banger he had with Danielson kinda makes me sad at how many bangers he's lost to being in WWE and just not being looked at that way. I didn't even look at him that way until the Danielson match.

  51. Considering the trash wwe puts on mania they really couldn't put this on lol Vince really hates the Rhodes. So glad both left that shithole

  52. This is why the comments saying how it really wasn't up to the calibre of Mania make no sense, they're acting like every match is this prestigious culmination of a well booked feud featuring top level main event competitors.

  53. I will say the one match they did have in wwe was not good and the feud had some potential that was not realized. I think stardust was the wrong route it was just seen as a goldust knock off to replace him and the crowd was not into it. No one wants to see the “new” version of an old character. By time Cody made it his own it was too late to salvage

  54. Vince is a fucking idiot. Cody vs Dustin was the match that interested me to watch AEW in the first place and it was bloody amazing.

  55. I greatly respect Dustin's work and Cody too, when they were in WWE and now in AEW. Looking back at that time frame, the right call was to not put them on for Mania. For me, personally, I was never itching to see them wrestle each other.

  56. If you can't find a way to book a blood feud between two brothers with a blowoff match at Wrestlemania, you probably shouldn't be booking wrestling at all.

  57. Imagine telling that to a booker that has ran the most successful wrestling promotion in contemporary history.

  58. The 1 PPV match I remember them having in WWE was really bad and so, so boring. I have to side with Vince on this one.

  59. But Cody and Goldust said it was the internets fault that match was never going to happen. Now its Vince? Has Vince been the internet the whole time?

  60. It's worth noting though, 2015 Cody Rhodes really wasn't a good a wrestler as 2019 Cody Rhodes, so it's not actually as open and shut as people make it out to be.

  61. Worked out for the best. The match is arguably one of the most important and iconic match of AEW's infant stage.

  62. Would the crowd react to the match though? I think it would’ve been cool but I could also see the crowd just sitting on their hands the whole match.

  63. I just listened to this episode today. Way of the Blade is awesome! Anybody who hasn’t read the book it’s an instant recommendation

  64. as hypocritical as "budget cuts" justifying releases, this company is trash. Hope more speak out on their awful practices.

  65. Its insane to think that they couldn't turn this match into a WM storyline. we could probably spitball 5 good angles for them and they could all be great. what Vince really meant was "my creative team isn't good enough to get this match to Wrestlemania."

  66. That's wild, I remember ages ago the rumor was that Dustin didn't want the match at Mania and it sounded so weird...

  67. Considering all the garbage matches that have happened on Wrestlemania shows throughout the years, this is just Vince being full of shit.

  68. Cody was over a few times in WWE. Lol before the Stardust gimmick, and when Sandow stole the briefcase from him.

  69. Meanwhile, the Cody Dustin match was better than any Mania match in like the last like 10 years...

  70. and then Dustin and Cody ended up have one of the best matches of the year at DoN 2019. Vince has no idea what he thinks is good or quality anymore.

  71. So your boss didn’t let you book your own match at WM? And it hurt you? Causes you to lose your passion? I hope he’s not blaming Vince here for these feelings. Hopefully he is man enough to look in the mirror and blame himself for trying to have his cake and eat it too.

  72. A competent booker would not need to have it suggested, but a competent booker would always be open to suggestions and judge them on their merit - the merit of which has since been proven.

  73. Their match a couple years ago was incredible, but even if Vince had allowed them to work Mania, it would have been 8 minutes with none of the drama and pathos allowed while commentary talked about the main-event matches the whole time.

  74. They would never have allowed it to even be a good match. Oh you can't bleed, Roman is gonna bleed later in the night, can't have that twice in one night!

  75. I know there would have been a different build, but Dustin and Cody both proved that a good build and solid in ring work makes a match amazing. It might not have been a 5 star match like they had in AEW, but I'm having an insanely hard time imagining a Rhodes family angle couldn't work during their Gold/Stardust fued.

  76. Cody vs Dustin at Double or Nothing really proved Vince wrong. It was the best match on the card. Everyone was crying when it was over. It reminded me of what I loved about pro wrestling. And Dustin, Cody (and JR, Jericho) were big reasons I became an AEW fan in the first place. I wasn't familiar with the indie scene or Japanese wrestling. But these names brought me over and I stayed. And that match was some of the best storytelling you're gonna see in any promotion in any era.

  77. Would have been perfect at WM28 when they had multiple AE vs then current era matches like Jericho vs. Punk and Rock vs. Cena, in addition to the end of an era.

  78. They had their match at the perfect time. Even if they had the creative freedom (that WWE would allow, at least) and were green lit for WM, I don't think it would have captured the same magic. Not because it's AEW or anything like that, but Cody had to grow and not be put into the weird Randy Orton J

  79. I could sit here all day listing matches that have happened at Wrestlemania but were less deserving than Cody vs Dustin.

  80. I honestly will never forgive Vince for not doing the Rhodes brothers angle at Mania 31, they had the perfect chance to do it with Dusty involved and everything and they didn't. Then of course Dusty died and it was too late to an angle with them all. Total wasted opportunity,

  81. We got the match as a starter of the feud once but then the crowd died and was so bad even chanting boring (for no reason) that Vince lost faith at least that's what I believed - the feud was abruptly ended after.

  82. WWE is basically anti dream match. Lucky to even get a single one for a year. Meanwhile, AEW seems to have them almost every week.

  83. Even if the feud happened, the match happened, and it took place at Mania, everything would have paled in comparison to how AEW pulled it off.

  84. For people who don't know, Dustin and Cody used to not be close at times in the past, and Dustin had issues with Dusty from time to time, I believe, concerning family issues tied to Cody. The fact that Dustin cleaned himself up, got back close with his family, and then they get shut down on Mania when he and his brother had worked hard through those gimmicks and angles on top of that...that's gotta hurt.

  85. The clear year to do this was in 2015 at WM 31. Stardust and Goldust had a stinker at Fast Lane 2015, and the finish was so weak, it seemed crafted to guarantee a follow-up match. For some reason, at WM 31, they only had 7 matches on the main show. If you look at

  86. Goldust vs Stardust/Cody Rhodes with Dusty as the conflicted Referee between 2 sons, hell have it so Cody is embarrassed as having Goldust as a brother and disgracing the Rhodes name.

  87. They had a match at no way out (elimination chamber? Whatever the Ppv pre mania was) which was alright but felt like they were building to the rematch where they’d go all out, and nothing. It was totally dropped

  88. Goldust and Cody's Fastlane match seemed like it was a test run for a WrestleMania feud. Unfortunately they shit the bed. I don't blame Vince for not having confidence in the program after that, even if I personally wanted to see it.

  89. This would have been a fight I would have looked forward to at Mania. I think they had a cool storyline. They deserved that time to make the match.

  90. Instead, at Wrestlemania 28 we got Big Show vs Cody in a story about Big Show having embarrassing Wrestlemania moments, until he finally got his moment in 2012 by defeating the 26 year old Cody Rhodes for the IC title… Goldust vs Cody would’ve slotted in perfectly instead.

  91. How Dustin expected any other reaction other than "Hard No" from Vince really speaks to how much passion he really did have for wrestling. Vince hated Dusty and his whole family.

  92. And then they fought in AEW and it was an instant classic. During Andrade/Cody I remembered it and realized that it's still my very favorite AEW singles match. I know there are better promos, and better workers - but I don't think you'll find a better storytellers when Dustys boys are on their best

  93. Who Legit wanted to see this at WrestleMania though??? Just to think if this did actually happen at mania the same smarks here talking bs about the match not happening would’ve been complaining and talking shit about it happening etc. Like damn WWE can’t win for shit.

  94. Hey, go get Way of the Blade. Fun little book. Also, the podcast is pretty great. Want to hear Tony Khan talk about Ted DiBase's face turn against Ric Flair? They got that pod. It's a good time.

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