Microsoft criticizes Apple’s new App Store rules for streaming game services as a ‘bad experience for customers’ - 9to5Mac

  1. Correct me if I’m wrong but under my understanding won’t it just be like downloading any other game for your phone? Or am I missing something?

  2. Maintaining App Store apps isn’t trivial either, having hundreds of apps to deal with will be a pain even with automation at a big company.

  3. Apple can regulate the apps in its store, Apple cannot regulate the apps offered in other stores. That regulation is a big part of what makes the Apple ecosystem so appealing to people: more secure, less unregulated garbage and potentially harmful apps.

  4. It’s the same process for downloading any application. I don’t see the issue here, even with Apple Arcade you download the game from the App Store individually.

  5. Individual app fits the iOS model much better tho. Simple open app use app. Instead of opening app to enter into a new app chooser to open another app. Individual apps is much more keeping the current use case in place.

  6. I realized this the day I had to transfer a video from a PC to my camera roll on iphone. Fucking insane.

  7. Ouch. So there’d be a Destiny 2 companion app, a Destiny 2 (streamed from Stadia) app, and a Destiny 2 (streamed from xcloud) app. That sounds awful.

  8. About your second paragraph: What, no? Why will that improve the user experience? Just sounds like an extra unnecessary step. Even more so that Apple Arcade games have to be downloaded unlike streamed games.

  9. Well then you only would be able to play the apps with a really good internet connection which is really not always the case on mobile devices.

  10. That one app to open is App Store.. why do you need another app to open a catalog of other games 🤷🏻‍♂️

  11. it "just works!" with 100 different apps, I can get into every game with one tap from the homescreen and 57 pages worth of games!

  12. I honestly hate Apple Arcade, as someone who’d never pay a subscription for something like that all it’s done is make tons of games I’d totally pay one time fees for completely inaccessible to me.

  13. This whole situation is embarassing for Apple. I really thought the user’s experience was their focus for so long (like through privacy and ease of use) but this whole xCloud debacle really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

  14. Apple has had this exact blind spot for the entire lifespan of the app store. The Kindle app situation is just embarrassing. My mom reads a lot, and I just bought her a Fire tablet because using an iPad to read Kindle books is an experience that only makes sense if you understand that it's Apple punishing you for wanting to do it.

  15. Because if they let them Apple Arcade is instantly dead. It’s the only reason that’s left here, streaming apps are clearly allowed, microsoft wants to pay the cut, even game streaming apps like Steam Remote and Moonlight are allowed. The only difference here is Microsoft poses a serious threat.

  16. The 30% payment processing would apply in every single case in Apple’s version. That’s 100 popular AAA games to be exploited instead of 1 gateway that’s hard to monetize.

  17. The worst part is that Apple is eventually going to launch their own competing service, and all the fanboys will eat it up and act like it's not a ripoff, like Apple Music. Apple will once again have a massive unfair advantage over the competition on their own platform, and the service will get big.

  18. Cloud gaming threatens the very existence of iOS games and the app store. Imagine if this is allowed, developers will no longer want to develop games on iOS. As they can just use other platforms with better capability and distribute via 3rd party distributors like Stadia. Apple will lose their grip on customers in their own yard and potentially lots if profits via IAP. They are not gonna let that happen. Hence the decision.

  19. Hasn't user experience always been terrible for anyone who doesn't just need the bare basics that apple decides everyone should have?

  20. Man this is so fkn annoying. I have a Game Pass thought could play on iPad. Even bought a new controller only for this.

  21. I was gonna buy an iPad thinking I could play my Xbox games on the go. So glad I didn’t. Apple is definitely in the wrong here.

  22. When they announced that they were going to blocking Facebooks ad tracking I was going to switch to iPhone from Pixel because of their privacy and how long they support their phones. This has soured that idea so instead of buying a new iPhone I am just going to stick with my Pixel 3a and buy a Series X.

  23. thats not a bad suggestion - he is known for replying to customers and if there is enough pressure, he may take personal notice

  24. Yes. People read the exec emails. I once emailed Jobs about a botched repair and someone replied and ordered a replacement for me.

  25. You’re out of your mind if you think anyone is going to look at or respond to user emails while Apple is in this legal battle.

  26. Is this to protect Arcade? It’s the only thing that makes sense as far as I can tell. There’s very little to no crossover between the games or style of games, but I imagine once XCloud is up and running for a similar price per month as Arcade, Arcade is basically buried.

  27. Cloud gaming threatens the very existence of iOS games and the app store. Imagine if this is allowed, developers will no longer want to develop games on iOS. As they can just use other platforms with better capability and distribute via 3rd party distributors like Stadia. Apple will lose their grip on customers in their own yard and potentially lots of profits via IAP. They are not gonna let that happen. Hence the decision.

  28. Yep pretty much, basically like “oh our gaming service isn’t doing as well as we thought and now another better service is coming up. Better make thousands of restrictions to make sure they won’t take over our service”

  29. Technically on the client side there's no difference between streaming services like Netflix and game streaming services like xcloud.

  30. There is in terms of responsiveness on the input. If your video takes 1/2 second to react, it’s no big deal. If your jump button does, that’s a bigger deal.

  31. Well, technically there is a big difference. Game streaming has to handle almost constant user input which is a radically different interaction experience than playing back a video file. So both conceptually and technically they are not quite similar, even though we categorize both as streaming.

  32. Shouldn't apple actually ban Netflix app too, since there are "interactive videos" (aka "video games"?? is that a philosophical question?) on Netflix, such as "Black Mirror: Bandersnatch" and "Minecraft Stories"??

  33. This is a good point. What’s to stop devs in the future from running their iOS games on the cloud and offering a single app that allows users to play that way? It puts Apple in a tough spot because they obviously want the App Store to be the one stop shop on iOS. But it really is anti consumer.

  34. I agree with MSFT that this is stupid, but I hope that they are malicious compliant and release 150 apps to the store just spamming it. When Apple developers complain that 1/2 the game charts are xCloud Games we will see the change.

  35. If I ever switch to android, my backup plan was always the google pixel. They have the cleanest software and pure android. But me switching to android doesn’t seem likely until for a another 3-5 years.

  36. I did make switch this year because I got fed up with Apple's stupid restrictions. I still miss iOS everyday but at least I can fucking stream my games

  37. I've switched back and forth a few times. I had an iPhone 11 Pro that I just gave to my wife and bought a OnePlus 8 Pro instead.

  38. my next tablet is going to be android. between this stupidity and lack of emulators on android its an easy choice for me.

  39. I'll be making the switch from Android back to iOS after 5 years in the Android ecosystem. Two main reasons

  40. I think Apple are being so hard on this is because it it competes with their future gaming plans and they don’t want that. Once Macs running the same architecture as iPhones, iPads and Apple TV come out their proposition to developers with games is write once and reach every Apple user.

  41. I don‘t see serious steps from Apple‘s side in hat direction. An Apple TV will not be able to compete with a XBox or a PlayStation. The CPU is just one component that has to be optimized, and Apple has not shown to have experience in gaming or this kind of architecture optimization.

  42. Microsoft is absolutely crushing it with their next gen strategy. The last piece of the puzzle is to get game streaming on iOS.

  43. If that is true they are still 5 years if not more away. The Arcade right now is on a very bad state and AAA game developers are not going to move to ARM overnight.

  44. Every move that Apple has done has indicated no interest in video games other than casual mobile games via Apple Arcade.

  45. It doesn’t just compete with their future plans, it will eat into their existing App Store games. While streaming isn’t for everyone there are plenty of people who will stop buying App Store games and just use xCloud or Stadia instead.

  46. With moving away from x86 chips apple basically killed gaming on their platforms though. Mobiles games are still going to work. They work on arm architecture and mostly use a vm anyways.

  47. I like apple stuff and own iphone 11 pro, watch and tv but for a company that constantly Pushes itself as a pioneer, they can’t even allow the future of mobile gaming. Instead of AAA games on a phone, we get crappy ad infested / micro transaction / pay to win crap! Very sad. I don’t think i’d jump ship over xcloud, but it’s certainly made me consider it, for first time in years and years

  48. TBH Microsoft has better legal and moral reasons to take Apple to court over this than Epic Games did, they violated rules on purpose for their own profit sake

  49. I honestly hope they sue because they probably have really good case. I really hope this trend continues and forces Apple to make some serious changes to their App Store policy. Don’t get me wrong I love Apple products but I feel like they’ve been taking a very anti consumer stance lately which is strange.

  50. The fun thing is that apple cannot win this fight, they either have a card up their sleeves, or the higher ups are complete and utter morons that dont understand how the industry is shifting

  51. You are talking about a trilion dollar company. 99% of it’s users doesn’t care abour xCloud and those who do, won’t change a thing

  52. While in theory, yes... this is how consumers can voice their displeasure, what's the alternative? Android?? No thank you.

  53. I already took one step and ditched my MacBook for a surface. Ditching my iPhone is gonna be hard though because I have an Apple Card... which that’s exactly what Apple intended

  54. While that is all well and good, most people know nothing about this. Think about it, there are billions of iPhones out there. Even if a million people are upset and leave it will hurt the financials but they will still make a ton of money. So voting with our wallets doesn't mean much at this point, sadly.

  55. And I will be. iPhone 11 Pro is the last Apple device I bought and until Apples figures some shit out, I’m not buying anything more.

  56. Voting with your wallet is like personally recycling but letting companies dump toxic chemicals into rivers. It might seem like you’re doing something impactful, but in reality you aren’t having as big of an impact as you think you’re having.

  57. already traded in a MBA for two surfaces for my kids to replace a mac mini too. just have to find a decent watch replacement and my car supports spotify natively

  58. It’s hard not to look at the increasingly hostile / anti-user choice decisions being made by Apple management in this case and wonder if their hubris here is gonna get them finally.

  59. Even though epic is just in it for money (and they dont have that big of a case), them winning against apple will still help the consumer somewhat.

  60. This honestly has me considering switching to a note 20 ultra. The reviews are all saying the game stream works incredibly well and smooth and the controller you can buy that you put your phone in is also receiving good reviews. I’d be all over this on a heartbeat if it showed up on the App Store.

  61. I think Apple is being quite petty on this, but streaming games has to be something for the smallest and choosiest of demographics...

  62. Nah, Netflix should have to release every episode of everything as an iTunes purchase too. Keep it consistent right? /s

  63. While that would send a powerful message it would also be a major escalation that hurts Microsoft customers and helps their competition (Google Drive).

  64. Supporting Apple is the only reason Microsoft themselves weren’t broken up 20 years ago for abusing their monopoly on Windows and Office. Retaliation like that would just open them back up to antitrust investigations that are already heating up on other monopolistic tech companies like Google and Facebook.

  65. Its pretty obvious that Apple doesn't want cloud gaming and is making excuses. Console level Cloud gaming wont replace hardware consoles but it would absolutely kill games in the app store.

  66. I have been an Android user from Nexus One days. Android fits me and my needs very very well, but after years of using it I thought I'd switch it up a bit and get an iPhone next year. IMO they have struck Gold with their in-house processors but this kinda anti-consumer attitude by Apple really puts me off.

  67. Does they mean they expect us to download each game directly from the App Store? Wouldn’t that defeat the whole purpose of steaming? I mean who even has that much space on their phone?

  68. No they expect you download a seperate app for each game you want to stream. You're not downloading the game itself.

  69. Im all for Apple having a tight grip on the App Store quality. But “bad experience for customers” when it comes to game streaming services??!

  70. I had the GamePass beta and all we had was Halo MCC but even that worked so goddamn good and was so simple to just jump in. I’m strongly considering getting one of the new Windows Tablets over an iPad next just do I can have an Xbox on the go.

  71. Yea this is one of the reasons I sold my ipad pro and bought the tab s7 plus. So far very happy with my decision. Hopefully if enough people do the same apple will see sense

  72. This is expected of apple because they're trying to protect their game revenues. But I see this as tim cook playing checkers while Nadella is playing chess.

  73. Apple's issue is that Xcloud streams games that sell DLC without giving Apple a 30% cut. Apple is pretty dogmatic about prohibiting anything which might cut it out of a share of anything purchased via an iOS app.

  74. I love my iPhone and all, but if they don’t allow game streaming by the time my time to upgrade comes, I might just go for an Android.

  75. Wish someone would go after apple for the blatant garbage on Netflix Facebook and YouTube for not abiding by their stupid needs to be vetted rules.

  76. while i'm mostly all-in into apple's ecosystem, I'm a casual console gamer when I find the time and i would have just loved using xcloud to play games when i'm on the road. i wish they'd come into their senses and this would happen.

  77. I don’t understand why they don’t work with the MS’ and Epics of the world to create “mini App Store” APIs if you will, give streaming game platforms the ability to host their own games inside their apps, through a totally different system on the front end where the user experience is like what the game platform want, but the backend is App Store like...Apple can keep a lot of the same rules and regs (likely with some tweaks and changes) but the user experience could be awesome. They could even get notified of game changes like they would an app submission, etc....Just work with these companies to kill the public outcry, and when it’s ready it’s a big joint lovefest announcement.

  78. I honestly don’t think Apple cares that much about Apple Arcade. These are 2 different types of service, Apple Arcade is $5 a month and Game Pass Ultimate (the one that is required if you want to play on mobile) is $15 a month.

  79. Yearly upgrades are always incremental, it’s when you wait a few years between that you really notice the improvements

  80. I don’t really see the need to get a great phone, since my current iPhone 8 (that I’ll likely use for at least a year more) already does everything I need, but I already have a bunch of portable game consoles and iPods that handle games, music and videos on the go, so the only thing I use my phone for YouTube, occasionally Netflix and a lot of reddit.

  81. This kind of crap makes me really disappointed in Apple. I mean a pc/console gamer like me is never gonna subscribe to Apple Arcade, I’m just never gonna Apple. I will however subscribe to google stadia and/or xcloud because that is the type of gaming I want.........I want my console/pc games on my phone, not the mobile games that flood that particular market. This is the one area I would consider leaving for Android!

  82. Apple is thinking small on this. The ipad supports xbox controllers now. It would be the perfect cloud gaming device with its great screen, light weight, and multiple other uses besides gaming: you basically get an xbox, a gaming pc, and a laptop all in one.

  83. Its not a matter of what apple can or cannot do, its a matter if they should, first of all, because its anti consumer practice, second, in the long run apple is the only one getting hurt because as time goes on game streaming is going to be increasingly mainstream

  84. I think we agree with Microsoft because we’re also Microsoft customers. I think we have to remember that Reddit can be a bubble, and that there are probably many, many customers that have no interest in xCloud and would prefer the App store remains as-is.

  85. No, people dislike this move because it’s a clear attempt to protect Apple Arcade. What would Apple even have to change to accommodate this?

  86. What consumer would support anti-consumer practices? What good reason does Apple have for not allowing their customers install the apps that they want?

  87. What are you talking about? Apple doesn't have to do anything at all. Microsoft wants to make a streaming app similar to Netflix. Apple just have too approve it instead of making up excuses to block cloud gaming.

  88. Apple wants you to download an app for every game you want to stream, which is simply ridiculous.

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