The Magnus/Hans Situation is Playing Out in Poker Right Now

  1. Oh shit THAT Garrett? I had no idea he was so successful honestly I wouldn't have expected it given his exit on the show haha

  2. It's weird, but if someone wanted to win so badly they would cheat on stream on a 130k all in, why would they just give it back? They took a lot of risks to get that money.

  3. This is a super dodgy look for her buuuuut in her defence a 4 can look like an A at a glance in a casino. A4o is sometimes nicknamed fake aces for this reason.

  4. At another point she also said "If my jack wasn't a club, I would've been out". She also claimed she was confused about her hand, which she didn't check - but watching the video she did check her hand 3 times before the river. She's also going back and forth between saying it was a "hero call", her current claim on twitter, and due to her confusion. Can't be both.

  5. It's only not a good look because there are obviously so many Snowflake losers on reddit trying to pretend the world "cheated' them out of their supposed destiny to hide the fact this is yet another case of a sore loser using his power, influence, and temper tantrums to get his way.

  6. I've casually followed poker for like 18 years (yes I'm one of those 2003 people) and I have never heard of someone giving money back after a hand is done.

  7. Why would a cheater give the money without having any evidence provided against them? Also, how did she cheat? Knowing his hole cards would lead her to fold or call?

  8. The implication that Garrett is the poker equivalent to Magnus is either intentionally dishonest or OP has a poor understanding of at least one of these games.

  9. Yeah, this isn't anything like Magnus-Hans. This is more like someone cheating in a weirdly well-televised ~0-1 GM and some NM and lower game, a stimul, or something like pogchamps. They invite people that wouldn't even be 2k lichess.

  10. Agreed. You can't really make direct equivalents between chess and poker because they are very different games, but I would say for Magnus a technical tournament player like Addamo, and Garrett is more like a strong blitz player, say Jose Martinez Alcantara or Tuan Minh le.

  11. Another parallel - much as Hans’ post-game analysis furthered suspicion, Robbi’s explanation for why she called was totally incoherent and made no sense at all

  12. Yeah but if you’ve ever played live poker you’ll have seen someone make a donkey play then try to justify it for the next hour changing their story dozens of times

  13. She also said she had the Jc blocker … which actually unblocks bluffs making it less likely G-man was bluffing and actually had a hand

  14. With the obvious difference being that Hans is one of the top pros in his field whereas Robbi is a semi-moronic newbie in hers.

  15. get fkd lmao - jk this shit sucks.. i got westworld s1 spoiled for me in the comments section of a completely unrelated thread while i was unable to watch T_T

  16. If she's stupid enough to make this call legitimately, then she's also stupid enough to choose this spot to cheat if she were cheating. In both situations it comes down to her lack of poker knowledge.

  17. I don't think she used RTA (real time assistance) in her tournaments. Poker is a little different than chess in that regard, in that you're allowed to use starting hand charts (non-dynamic) and HUDs for example (heads up display, they show you what percentage of hands people play, raise, fold etc.) - everything that you could write down yourself basically.

  18. I'm not up to date on this particular situation but in general a lot of people use engines while playing poker online. They're called HUDs and in ways they're even worse than chess engines. Not only do they give you statistics about your hand (the calculations of your likelihood to win), they also tell you the other players' histories. Things like "This person 3 bets (re-raises) 26% of the time before the flop".

  19. I just watched the clip. Another stupid drama, I highly doubt she cheated in that spot. Like imagine cheating to only get a 3% edge.

  20. She obviously wasnt cheating. No cheater would play Garrett, the most watched player, on a live stream to hero call into a coin flip. Its not like Garrett was drawing dead or anything. Her hero call was a freaking coin flip. It was simply a bad call and she got lucky.

  21. I'm not a very big poker player, but is this not just an example of someone completely misplaying a hand and getting lucky? Adelstein did all the right things but Robbi just disregarded all the signs when she should have folded.

  22. It’s not applicable. She just played a hand horrifically wrong and got paid out. It literally happens all the time.

  23. I don't know anything about her skill level or experience, but at lower skill levels this sort of play can happen from time to time. It's usually a degenerate gambler or a drunken tourist and the other people at the table would be very happy to see someone playing like that.

  24. I mean this was pretty much best case scenario for her, and she still wasn't the favourite odds wise.

  25. The Poker equivalent is the Mike Postle situation. He clearly cheated. It was never definitively proven how. The best poker players in the world said he clearly cheated, but the only "evidence" was stats and circumstantial (like his behavior). After people accused him of cheating, he vehemently denied it AND took his accusers to court.

  26. Postle's cheating was way more obscene than any potential Hans OTB cheating. Postle's cheating was the equivalent of 13-year-old Hans' Titled Tuesday run of blatant, 5 centipawn loss, 5 seconds per move every move games, but if Hans has cheated OTB, he's done it in a way more subtle way than Postle did, where he was making some absurdly nonsensical bets and folds that only make sense if he could see the other players' cards.

  27. They saw Postle checking his phone during hands on casino cameras. The hole cards were being shown outside the venue. It's not difficult to figure out how things were carried out.

  28. Postle situation in chess would be more like if Hans suddenly started playing like a 3400 player in broadcasted tournaments and a 2100 player in tournaments without a broadcast. And everyone has an idea of how he's cheating, but it's never actually 100% proven.

  29. As someone who plays a fair bit of both games, this would make substantially more sense if she made the call on the river. Which is what I thought the video would show, but she actually calls on the turn and agrees to run it twice.

  30. Pot odds, basically (google it if you don't know this concept). Since she already had money invested in this pot, knowing you have 47% equity is more than enough to call in this spot and would be the best play.

  31. Hasn't Alex Grischuk said that he sometimes takes longer than needed on early moves just to make the opponent think that he's out of his prep? Or am I misremembering something. I feel like that'd count as bluffing.

  32. Actually there is. Making an intentionally subpar move to psychologically mess with your opponent is a form of bluffing. At least to my mind it is. You’re intentionally risking equity in the hopes of tricking your opponent into making a bad decision.

  33. Evidence matters when it comes to big issues like cheating and damaging someone's reputation. I don't think a cheater would call in that spot because 1. It makes everyone suspicious that she is cheating 2. Your opponent has a lot of outs. You want to make such calls on the river when you know you win the pot. She simply misread her hand and was embarrassed to admit it in front of pros like Ivey so she tried to justify it and as a result dug a hole for herself. To me this is another case of how a popular successful person can abuse his power and force his will on another person. He got all his money back from her. The same thing has happened in Carlsen Niemann case. The strong popular one has abused his power and has accused his opponent of cheating in their game without any evidence and as a result has damaged niemann's reputation. Unfortunately Robbi was not ready for such a situation and didn't handle it well which made the whole situation suspicious. It should not be easy for a relatively unknown female player to sit and play high stakes with all of these top male players. Hopefully Garret will reevaluate the whole situation once he has calmed down and give her money back.

  34. Folding if you can see your opponent hand is absolutely terrible , calling is the obvious choice.

  35. Not strictly poker cheating but two related incidents are Chris Ferguson and Full Tilt Poker, and Phil Ivey creating an angle to beat casino baccarat and getting caught up in lawsuits.

  36. The biggest poker cheating scandal is a guy called Mike Postle. He wasn't well known until he started cheating though. There are some youtube videos on it that are worth a watch, it was wild.

  37. There are quite a lot, going back to UltimateBet where a user had access to everyone else’s cards and made a killing

  38. thats still a call winning 47% of rivers if you know opponents holdings in vacuum. but it would be pretty blatant way to cheatm and pretty unlikely. but theres been more blatant cheating in the past(the absolute poker scandal)

  39. She asked whether threes are good, inclined to believe she just misread her hand but giving the winnings back? That's kind of a crappy thing to do because it just drives the needle further in imo.

  40. Even the poker community on reddit seems to be split in to two camps just like in Chess. Really a lot of paralels.

  41. Yeah Garret is maybe the equivalent of a 2400 or so. He only plays invite only games that are basically just shooting fish in a barrel.

  42. 2400 is pretty fair imo. In poker its not as important to work on going from 2400 to 2500 as it is to find games with <2400 players.

  43. Garrett is a very good player as live cash players go, but to call him the best is a massive stretch. He would get absolutely destroyed by the best online guys like Linus and Stefan.

  44. Funny enough I remember reading 2+2 posts of ppl being convinced that Garrett is cheater cuz of his "perfect play " at -Live at the bike- couple years ago.

  45. Haha didn’t see those. If he is cheating, he mixes in enough bad decisions to fool me. I don’t know if he’s the best, but he’s certainly in the conversation.

  46. I don't understand poker terms here. What is Jack High? Why it is weird she won him? I watched the clip and it said she had 47% winning chance before the final card. So what makes her win so significant?

  47. In this poker you play with the highest combination of your cards + the cards on the table. She won with Jack (worse than queen, king, ace) as her highest card. The odds are for the audience, not really the players. They don't know what their odds are because they can't see the other players'cards.

  48. She had a better hand than him but only because he essentially had nothing, which she wouldn't know. Calling in that position is a very poor move unless you have a fairly good idea exactly what cards he has

  49. Why would you pick a random misplayed highstakes hand when there`s currently a real cheating scandal in tournament poker which is eerily similar to the Hans situation?

  50. It’s the dynamic of the #1 player being in a position of being beat and believing he was cheated and then getting up and walking away from the game and it being an event the entire community is fixated on.

  51. This guy really just said that Garrett Adelstein is arguably the best cash poker player. I can't even understand how you could possibly think that.

  52. Really? I felt like this was common perception. He’s a massive draw for streams and everyone seems to be falling over themselves all the time to talk about how good he is, both at the table and in the booth, and he seems to have a legion of fans.

  53. It’s poker, he got sucked out. People make idiotic plays and get paid out all the fucking time, that’s why you have to play 10s of thousands of hands to assess skill in poker. What a weird post this is.

  54. Poker got jealous of all the attention chess got from the Carlsen-Niemann drama, so it decided to make a scene

  55. https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/poker-drama-erupts-as-garrett-adelstein-accuses-robbi-jade-lew-of-cheating-in-bizarre-269k-hand-1946431/

  56. The thing about poker is to figure out cheating purely from gameplay, you need to look at the aggregate instead of any specific hand. Mike Postle was caught because of three factors:

  57. Why not? If she is cheating she would know her opponent didn't have anything yet. So easy to get into situations where you win big and lose less

  58. I mean, it's very different though in that the best poker players of all time can get bad beats, even a random nobody could take a hand from a master player.

  59. There are possible “live tells” in poker that is not considered cheating. Nobody can really pinpoint or rule out tells accurately. Vibe and body language are actually important and identifying them to make plays is considered skill in poker.

  60. Yeah but even if she had a soul read on him and knew he was bluffing there are still hands he could bluff with that beat her Jack. Her play makes more sense if she's cheating and knows his specific cards. If she does have a read on him, she should have waited to catch him bluffing when she has a decent value. Her explanation doesn't really make a lot of sense.

  61. Garrett is a high stakes cash game crusher. There is almost no chance that she picked up a live tell. And even if she knew he was bluffing, you still don't call with Jack high because that still loses to a lot of his bluffs. KQ/KJ and hands with Ac/Kc are all natural bluffs that are beating Jack high.

  62. Giving the winnings back... 95% chance she cheated lol. Imagine if Hans was like “ok lol I forfeit the game”.

  63. I'm curious how do people "cheat" at poker ? They suspect she was accessing the broadcast to see others hand ? Or she is suspected to be using an engine ?

  64. In this situation it would be somehow knowing the opponent's hidden cards . In televised poker there are cameras that show the viewers the cards, so perhaps she might have an inside man communicating the cards to her from that source . (Just as a random example, not saying this is what's happening here)

  65. Andy being called the 2nd best player at a table with Garrett and Phil Ivey. Andy stock rising 😂😂😂

  66. I mean this has played out about 20x previously in poker already. Mike Postle being a total shit player and suddenly being the GOAT on stream is the most recent.

  67. Sorry, a hero call is when a player calls a bet with a very weak holding, believing the other player has nothing (i.e. is bluffing.)

  68. A. This is not a 'parallel situation' because the games are completely different. In chess, you can't win by degenerate gambling that happens to luck out. I

  69. It's a strange situation, it was 53% vs 47% hand and she said run it twice. Even if she knew his hand, the call is not a stong call I feel like she just played bad tbh.

  70. I am no poker player, but according to the video when she called she had a 47% chance to win. Seems like a reasonable move? What’s the deal?

  71. I just saw the hand. If she's cheating, then she is the dumbest cheater ever. You're sitting on a table with hundreds of thousands of dollars and an edge big enough to take a lot of money away and you want to imcriminate yourself by throwing your money in in that spot.

  72. at least the guy gave a pretty detailed description about the reasons for his suspicion, unlike Magnus.

  73. I’m equating the #1 player believing he was cheated in a situation where cheating seems extremely unlikely and not knowing how to handle it.

  74. Oh, did Adelstein leave halfway through the event (forcing other players to ante/blind for his spot), and then matchfix in the next event he played in?

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