Thoughts on this?

  1. That would be great if we had the ER/Psych nursing/healthcare resources needed. I assume NY is like all other states right now, we don't have the time, staff, space, or energy to take in additional mentally ill patients right now. Most of the time, they sit in the ER for days and even then there are no acute psych care beds available for them.

  2. This is my concern. As someone who used to work inpatient psych, I don’t understand where they think they’re taking people. A huge percentage of the folks who show up voluntarily looking for help end up sitting in the ER for days and then discharging, I can’t imagine that inpatient psych wards in New York have the resources they need to admit people just because they have psych symptoms and are homeless. Honestly my guess is that they drop people off at the ER and they’re dismissed without being admitted, and end up back on the street without receiving any care.

  3. Hopefully its someplace that is better than them living in the subway system (for their sake being the most vulnerable NYers and likely victims of crime, as much as being a public nuisance), and I sincerely hope better than putting them in prison.

  4. Yes it's fucked up, but it's a fucked up situation. A ton of homeless folks are mentally ill, and there are very few clean boundaries in the sphere of mental health. Some people are going to get much needed help from this. Some people are going to be hurt by this. There is no simple answer.

  5. 100%. It’s amazing how many times I have had someone clearly mentally unstable digging through my trash and I call to get them help and the response is “well did they ask for help”? Like what a cop out.

  6. Yeah this is weird as shit. But also a society shouldnt only have two options “ignore it” or “fucking lock them up”

  7. I’m sorry but this is Reddit. We are looking for hyper-charged, biased rhetoric preferably filled with insults and dismissals. We noticed you provided a reasonable and nuanced response to a sensitive topic.

  8. Wow a person who realizes not everything can be so simple as black and white. Of course the program won’t be perfect at first and hopefully they oversee it properly and make adjustments as it needs to be.

  9. Not to mention that NY winters are brutal. This might save people who may not think to seek shelter from freezing to death

  10. The other part of this problem, and it doesn't just affect the homeless, is that there are just not enough social and mental health workers.

  11. It shouldn't be just police doing this though. It should be licensed healthcare specialists, with police on call, in case of trouble.

  12. I’ve worked EMS in midtown for years. The problem is they don’t get the care they need. Ever since as a nation we stopped funding long term mental health care, they mentally I’ll have been homeless and make up the majority of people in homeless shelters. Mentally Ill individuals in homeless shelters do not get the medical care they need and often go without taking their medication. This has caused homeless shelter in NYC to be violent. So much so that the few homeless patients I have had without an underlying mental health issue choose to sleep on the street because they are afraid to go to to the homeless shelter because they feel unsafe there.

  13. It’s inhumane that they are stuck wandering amongst the homeless community. Clearly unable to take care of themselves.

  14. Watch as those services provided to the involuntarily removed are critically underfunded. A tale as old as time. It's the removal that's the ultimate goal, and it's the "services" that are the foot in the door.

  15. Another Reagan policy that effed us was closing mental hospitals. It’s like everything he did turned out horrible.

  16. I would also think its better to have a mentally ill person in a hospital, with access to meds, food, clothes, shelter and a good, safe, warm environment.

  17. The real problem is how the facilities will treat the patients and off the cost of keeping them up with determine said care. This was once common practice throughout the country but due to problems I listed they closed

  18. “They deemed too mentally ill to care for themselves, even if they pose no threat to others” this is not the type of enhanced power the already corrupt NYPD needs.

  19. From the sound of it, you're a pretty reasonable person. Probably the only person to make an actual response to the question too.

  20. I'm sure all chronic homeless people will fall into this category so it's basically just open season for the cops on the homeless.

  21. There IS an everyone wins scenario. Buy them more permanent housing or give hotel vouchers, create a UBI for residents. Make health care universal/nationalized. Pay people enough to actually care for themselves. Fund mental healthcare. There are plenty of everyone wins scenarios, but our country is controlled by a few rich scumbags/corporations who refuse to do anything for the good of the people unless it makes them a profit. We’ve been hijacked by the 1% in literally every industry.

  22. As someone who’s father has been mentally ill and homeless for 30+ years, I support this and wish they’d do the same for him. He’s 60 now and the driving force is paranoia which is rooted in alexithymia and mistrust of self and others. Simply providing a roof doesn’t fix things, I’ve tried.

  23. Last winter where I live a mentally ill woman froze to death in a parking structure. She was not homeless; she had a studio in a building that is designated with support and services for people struggling with mental health. Yet her illness drove her to wander the streets during a cold snap. After her body was found there was a lot of finger pointing & hand wringing. Yet if there is support present & a person is too unwell to choose it, the next logical step seems to be to force them to comply even if they resist. Either that or suck it up & accept that the consequences might be unpleasant, including some fatalities.

  24. In NY, a person can be taken into custody under established mental health laws (MHL) if they appear to be mentally ill AND pose a threat to themselves OR others.

  25. It’s winter in NYC. If you are taken in and provided health care, a meal and shelter by mistake, and you are offended by this, what can I tell you? Either carry a Macy’s bag and get in a cab or go hike the Appalachian Trail. I think Adams l, if making a mistake, is erring on the more humane side of the issue.

  26. Reminds me of Bill Burr’s bit from his recent special where he said that back in the day you could be crazy for about 15 minutes until a van with orderly individuals would show up and take you away

  27. It's a funny skit but those people who went away in vans didn't neccesarily get cared for - in fact abuse, neglect and trauma was usually the outcome

  28. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. Many homeless people don't have families that could take them in and there are little resources for them. It sounds harsh but maybe taking them to a place that could even somewhat care for them while putting a roof over their head and feed them is better than them starving in the cold. I can totally see where people would be opposed to this however.

  29. It's a wrap-around back to asylums. I'm not vouching for how they were run in the past, but time has shown that doing away with them entirely was not the move. I can't believe I've scrolled through 75% of the comments by now and haven't seen it mentioned once.

  30. Hospitalize them WHERE? Emergency departments across the country, including and especially NYC, have been dealing with patient boarding issues for years and they’ve nearly hit a breaking point. Patients are dying in the lobbies emergency departments because there’s simply nowhere for them to go, no beds, no rooms… But no, let’s see how far we can push our already broken healthcare system before it collapses.

  31. The ER is also a last resort. They can prevent someone from taking their own life, but they're not equipped to support anyone in crisis. It's stressful in an ER and not appropriate for non-acute care - mental health emergencies OR homelessness.

  32. And when they’re treated, where will they go? Back to being homeless unless society steps up to take care of one another. I work in a state psych hospital. There are NO resources for people even those with employment.

  33. Do a reverse Reagan and it would be nice But that's not what this will be. It will be punitive rather than rehabilitative. As America has shown to be the status quo.

  34. before reagan closed them all there were tons of state funded mental institutions. when he closed them up in the 80s they just let them out on the street. it hasnt gotten any better in 40 years.

  35. You’re correct, also back then there were no homeless camps on our sidewalks no defecation on the streets, and when they were institutionalized, they couldn’t get drugs or alcohol, and a lot got better because of it, so it’s not a punishment ,plus medical care, and a warm place to stay in the winter

  36. Recently there’s been a lot of reports in Portland and other cities of people being randomly assaulted by individuals who clearly and desperately need mental help, so I staunchly support this. My sister was just harassed in the west coast bay area by a guy who said “If you reject me, that’s a hate crime,” and then he proceeded to ramble about how Obama destroyed the country. If her friends weren’t there to defend her, god knows what the fuck would have happened. I’m sick and tired of dishing out sympathy to these people, because now I just want something done about them. And this is a start.

  37. It’s a bit like drugs. If you want to do opiates I guess I can’t stop you, but the minute you start pissing by the playground or robbing drugstores, it’s time to leave society until you can be part of it again.

  38. Vancouver as well. We got rid of our asylums with the promise of redirecting the funds to mental health and support. Surprise, there was no funding, and many people on the streets.

  39. I guess I’m curious about the criteria here? What’s going to be used to confirm if someone is mentally stable or not?

  40. My best friend is suicidal and has spent time in mental institutions because of it. Out of the 4 places only 1 place wasn't full of violent guards and nurses who would tell him to quit wasting everyone's time and kill himself.

  41. Institutions are enough to make you want to unalive rather than be victim to one. Speaking from experience. Talk about untrained, unqualified, uncaring people and horribly administrated

  42. Thank you. Everyone in these comments seems to think these people will get real help from this. Its basically jail. Thats it.

  43. M’y thought is that putting a lot more mentally ill people in a system that is already underfunded, inadequately structure to provide adequate care is only going to leave to more trauma, thus more long term pain and suffering for people who are already mentally ill.

  44. The homeless industrial complex of major cities like NY or SF have poured untold millions of dollars into taking less aggressive steps than institutionalization.

  45. Yeah, i mean I'm all for the mentally ill having three hots and a cot in a place that can keep them on the meds they need to keep clear headed, but if we're not going to provide funding and resources to those medicaid mental health facilities, what good is this program? These folks will just get their meds for a week or two, then pressure on doctors to clear up beds will turf them to the streets, where they will stop taking meds and going to therapy, and they will be worse off because now they're going through withdrawal on top of their normal symptoms. I work in foster care, and I started with a lot of teens with severe trauma and other mental health and criminal issues. We were woefully undereducated, underfunded, and underequipped. Often, in my experience, the government programs seem to be the worse off. It's a multifaceted and complex issue, but just shoving people in a dark room isn't the solution.

  46. I’m getting downvoted but here it goes: I personally hate having to step over these filthy strung out vagrants sprawled out on the sidewalk, or walking passed the ultimate guilt trip of someone holding a cardboard sign… as I’m trying to enjoy my day.

  47. I’m with you. Living in Seattle for the last decade, it’s crazy how rampant of an issue it is. Something like .004 percent of the population is responsible directly for killing whole districts, like our international district. We used to have a truly staggering amount of small business restaurants and shops. Now many of them can’t afford to stay open due to Jeff’s and breaking. Customers dwindle because of dealing with tweaked and being threatened by mentally Ill people.

  48. Okay but the reality of how things actually play out is not this magic scenario of patients getting rehabbed perfectly and “let back” into society. They are going to clog up ERs, mostly in hallway beds, shoulder to shoulder with other people and possible triggers, not able to get the help they need while the staff is busy you know with medical emergencies. They’ll wait for days if not months here for placement at a facility, which faces the same issues. then they will be deemed fine, be let out, still not have a home or a job and unable to afford the upkeep of psychiatric drugs and therapy.

  49. Thoughts? its a major problem with no easy answers. And just doing this is such a massive push of an easy answer that itll never work. Lets start from the top.

  50. … and then what? Like, what’s the long term strategy? Are they just perpetually 5150’d in for-profit asylums?

  51. So one day if you disagree with the state you will be deemed mentally ill. Congratulations if your kids wonder why you get lobotomized for being against joining the war in Iran vs Israel

  52. As if there’s enough room inpatient for all these people? My friend just got turned away for not being suicidal enough. No good solutions. Taking bodily autonomy away is bad. Bad. Bad.

  53. My experience tells me that most places where those people are sent to are just deposits for undesirable people. They are not treated just drugged to give less work for the caretakers that have much more people they are capable to manage. Tell me with a straight face that it is different in USA! They will not die of cold and hunger, but they are not much better there. And I really doubt the good intentions of the government about it. If it seems I have a cynical view of life it is because I have.

  54. I’m pretty skeptical about this. NY is known for its corruption, the same building that these people are gonna be put into are probably gonna be used to funnel money into the pockets of government officials. That kind of stuff has been going on a long time in NY

  55. I think its a great strategy if it is done logically and ethically, using properly trained personnel to handle the situation compassionately, and will probably help the huge majority of people who it effects in the long run.

  56. Finally! I'm sorry, but letting mentally ill people live on the streets and shit themselves is NOT a humane answer. People opposed to this want to make it a human rights issue or tell us that what we really need to do is create some kind of post capitalist utopia free of poverty and injustice.

  57. I don’t think that’s constitutional and I wouldn’t trust NYPD aka the worst and most corrupt PD in America to evaluate peoples mental state. Officers are not mental health experts. I could see NYPD abusing this to violate citizens rights.

  58. It's a great idea - EXCEPT for the part about giving the police??? power to decide if you're "mentally fit"??? nah fuck that with a macuahuitl

  59. This is concerning...don't like the increased population of street ppl all over the country, at the same time, I don't agree with disappearing ppl.

  60. An unfortunate necessity and, for good or evil, a step towards how things used to be done. Back before "homeless" was in vogue they were called bums, and the cops would move them along or arrest them. If nothing else, this caused them to do their very best to remain invisible, instead of aggressively panhandling and occupying every foot of the sidewalk.

  61. Capitalist view point, if I spend $10 in taxes to deal with legal issues and lost revenue or $5 in taxes to get mentally ill people off the streets and into a program to help them, then I save $5.

  62. I feel like maybe this was tried before in the past...... Obviously I think this decision has been made with the best intentions but what happens when someone like trump becomes mayor? Or the cops decided anyone they don't like is deemed unfit????

  63. If they are actually going to offer treatment and follow-up, that would be fantastic. I was quite shocked when I visited various States about 10 years ago, at the sheer numbers of floridly mentally ill people wandering around major cities: most notably San Francisco.

  64. "Recent reports tell us that there's been an unpredictable increase in those suffering from mental illness in New York City. Hospitals are filling-up with mental health patients echoing numbers at peak covid.

  65. Anything but admitting they are "addicts"... mentally ill problem, housing problem, accommodation deficit, god forbid if one mayor admits and acts on drugs...

  66. What do they do after they pick them up? Like will they have housing until they die or get better, or will they get picked up for a bit and get thrown back out on the streets? Will they have programs to help them get back up and get a job and stuff? Also our healthcare system is horribly understaffed, underfunded, and overworked. I don’t think this will end up so good. Only time will tell.

  67. I was essentially kidnapped by the police and sent off to an in-patient facility this year. On top of the police blatantly lying to my face, never being allowed to speak to a doctor while locked in the ER, the patient advocates blocking my number, and them illegally signing off on sending me, the facility I was sent to didn’t follow Covid procedures(I caught Covid while there), they had no AC in 100° temperatures, and repeatedly gave patients the wrong medicines and things they were allergic to. After begging for medical help because I was severely constipated, they called me a liar, accused me of “refusing to comply” because I refused to take medication that I KNEW I was allergic to, and they exposed me to elderly patients when I had Covid. And that’s just a small piece of the horrible things they did.

  68. Good idea, but in the current system it's just gonna be idiot cops dumping people into the already overloaded system and fucking it up even more.

  69. I’m amazed there are places in the western world where people who are a danger to themselves or others cannot be put into care.

  70. Looks like it’s happening. Cops can’t even deescalate violence. Now you’re giving them free reign to say who is or isn’t too sick???

  71. So who determines if a random street person is mentally ill? Surely not the dumb fucking cops with no training in mental health...

  72. I fully support it. The headline states clearly that the people are deemed too mentally ill to care for themselves, even if they pose no threat to others. That's a crap way to word it, because it triggers emotion but doesn't encourage thought. It's an-emotionally loaded way of saying the people DO pose a threat, it's just that it's to themselves, instead of others, since being unable to care for oneself is a serious threat to the health and well-being of any person who is in that position, and can cost them everything up to and including their life. (I read that particular publication often, and it annoys me when a journalist or op-ed contributor skips provoking thought and opts to provoke emotion, instead.)

  73. Bahaha. It's easy to be compassionate when you don't have to deal with it. Like illegal immigrants in Texas. Bunch of hypocrites.

  74. I ride NY subway 5 days a week - almost every evening people around me have to deal (or avoid) mentally disturbed individuals. I am not talking about people who ask for money, noooo.... i'm talking about completely insane people WHO SHOULD NOT BE IN SUBWAY CAR. Adams is an idiot, but he is doing the right thing.

  75. I mean help those who can’t help themselves. I’m sure the media and other groups might have a field day denouncing people trying to help others but this isn’t inherently bad

  76. If you claim you are actively killing yourself, you get help. If you want to let yourself freeze to death because you aren’t mentally competent, that’s a-okay. Makes no sense

  77. Yeah it violates the bill of rights multiple times. It’s kinda scary reading these comments and seeing how readily everyone would give up those protections, especially after all of the posts and comments agreeing how corrupt our politicians are.

  78. Well I'll wait for the lawsuits. Maybe he should start prosecuting the full extent to the law the folks who actually break the law first instead of focusing on folks who are mentally incompetent? My guess most folks do not know this but you are NOT mentally incompetent until you are found LEGALLY mentally incompetent so it is a LEGAL decision and not one to take lightly.

  79. I’m sure they will be nice and gentle and very supportive and not intimidating at all in the process too /s

  80. Its bad to gather up countless people against their consent, lock them in small rooms with minimal facilities or access and then when they freak out restrain, beat or abuse them into compliance.

  81. I think the something would be to actually have facilities that could care for people. Our capacity to actually provide care to those who need it in this country is the real problem.

  82. I have a lot of mixed feelings on this. For one, I don't think that police officers should be making this determination. This is not their speciality and it's not fair to put that on them.

  83. This is the right move. They need treatment until they can care for themselves. Hard pill to swallow

  84. Because the police have shown themselves to be perfectly capable of correctly assessing the state of human beings.

  85. As a long time sufferer of MH issues I think this is a great idea.. IF the intentions are pure.. IF they actually intended on helping these people genuinely. If it's a clean up the streets exercise where they are taken and just locked up and forgotten about, then I hope he burns in hell.

  86. I think it’s a good thing. So many people don’t get the help they deserve due to a lack of finances, resources, and pride over asking for help.

  87. No one is a danger to themselves or others….. until they are. Some people clearly need help but will never seek it on their own. They are unfit to make decisions for themselves. So others need to make that decision for them.

  88. Though there's potential for abuse or violation of rights, really sick people dont usually know how sick they've become and are not going to voluntarily commit themselves. As humans we need to look out for each other, especially when it is clear that someone is no longer capable of caring for themselves or making healthy decisions. Prior to the states deciding to close their mental institutes, as a society, we have always taken care of the mentally unwell in some way and lately it looks as if we have completely abandoned them to the streets. It's a very sad reality. The community needs to step up.

  89. My thoughts? It’ll be a drain on NYPD. The general standard for an involuntary commitment is behavior showing that the person is dangerous to him/herself. Where are they putting them is the question

  90. Only the worlds greatest superpower lets severely mentally ill people wander the streets in full mania and or delusional states, because they don't have medical cover.

  91. I’m sorry, what qualifications do they have to make them capable of making decisions about mental health?

  92. it's not an execution squad, they're bringing them to the hospital where people with more qualifications can handle it.

  93. About time. In my experience in working with homeless people it seemed like the vast majority had some sort of mental issue. This should be everywhere though. In my opinion I believe we get fed a false narrative that homeless are lazy and choose that life but that is few and far between. I think most of them have some sort of disability mental or physical that is preventing them from being homeless. Like I said just my opinion I could be wrong.

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