Zion, Anthony Davis, and LeBron are #2, #3, and #4 in FG attempts at the rim (restricted area), but somehow only #15, #12, and #43 respectively in free throw attempts. Giannis and Ja Morant are #1 and #5 for both, rounding out the top 5 in rim FGA.
Zion, Anthony Davis, and LeBron are #2, #3, and #4 in FG attempts at the rim (restricted area), but somehow only #15, #12, and #43 respectively in free throw attempts. Giannis and Ja Morant are #1 and #5 for both, rounding out the top 5 in rim FGA.
He doesn’t sell contact. Despite some old hatorade YouTube compilations that might tell you otherwise. He isn’t even in the same league as today’s stars in terms of embellishing to get to the line. Sadly, that stuff matters more than anything to refs.
This is where being slower hurts for foul calls tho…in many ways Lebron is even and finishing through a defender, while Giannis is ahead or going OVER a defender.
Zion, Ja morant, and Lebron are not fair. AD is about right. He typically avoids contacts. Giannis I’m torn. He’s fair but playing defense against him is unfair. He causes a lot of contact so I feel they should be no calls cause he’s so physical, you have to be physical back at him but by being physical their fouls.
Bron should be attempting a few more FTs per game, but he actually shies away from contact a bit too. So, as always, answer lies somewhere in the middle.
It’s always been really bad with him but this year it feels particularly egregious. Dudes are just hanging off him when he’s trying to do a simple lay up and the refs are looking at him like you want that record you’re gonna earn it the hard way
I think Zion is gonna deal with the same foul call issues that shaq did. He’s so strong that guys just bounce off of him, and that hurts his chances on foul calls. Shaq got fouled basically every time he got the ball so it might not be quite as bad for Zion, but it’s going to be something to consider when observing these stats for him.
LeBron hasn't averaged 8 FTA a game over a season in a decade. With how much he drives and how much contact his body absorbs, that just doesn't feel right.
We're seeing the same thing with Zion. He just doesn't react to contact and so the refs don't call anything. The game against OKC was especially egregious. SGA shot 18 FT, while Zion had 1... on 17 shots in the paint.
I admit I don't watch a ton of Lebron games, but when I catch him in the regular season or see him in the playoffs he is almost always the one initiating contact when driving to the basket.
The LeBron thing bums me out, but it follows the familiar path of players getting fewer attempts as they age. LeBron finishes around rather than through contact more than he used to, but he still seems to get officiated like a guy who's too strong to get the whistle. To me, that argument should go away if the dude is 38. Just a take from a biased LeBron fan.
He isn't getting past people like he used to. Before when he was going to the paint he was so fast the defense was clearly scrambling and fouls were more obvious. Now when he creates contact at the rim the defense was there just as fast as he was. That extra tenth of a second difference is the difference between clear fouls and a no-call.
It's crazy how the league doesn't tell refs something. Lebron, their biggest financial incentive by far, is getting fucking demolished every time he gets to the rim and they never call shit. Like, even if they don't care about fairness at all, you'd think they'd still do it just because of money, but no.
Eh I doubt Bron is actually getting unfair calls, more likely he doesn’t sell contact bc he’s not a great ft shooter. Makes more sense for him to try and avoid the contact and score. Also probably doesn’t want to go directly into ppl like the young guys will, man is 38 and probably wants to keep his body in good shape
Bron would crush the scoring records and his numbers would be even more boosted (and that’s on his already insane numbers for year 19) if he got the FTs he deserved. Guess the refs still think that old man is a locomotive train lmao
You know how this sub was clowning on LeBron when he said he needs to learn how to flop? I think that LeLiar was finally telling the truth. We’ve reached that level of insanity.
This whole thread is trash. Giannis is a trash FT shooter and gets wrapped up a lot. LeBron is an average FT shooter, players don’t intentionally foul him
We’re definitely at a generation crossroads of superstar respect. I would prefer if it wasn’t so inconsistent. Lebron deserves way more calls at this stage just a respect thing.
Would be pretty hard for them to be consistent about calling carries on Ja tbh, given that he carries nearly every possession. Would be pretty great if they’re just saving up for the playoffs tho and every time he touches the ball there’s basically an instant whistle
Yeah. For all the talk about how “refs rig it for the Lakers”…still waiting to see this conspiracy take shape. Hasn’t been a thing since the early 2000s🤷♂️
Giannis is shooting 61% free throws. How much of it is just defenders wrapping him up or fouling him hard to put a poor free throw shooter on the line instead of giving up an easy bucket? And with Ja, he is second in drives per game. Shai (#1 in drives) and Luka (#3) are both in the top 5 in free throws per game too. More drives usually leads to more contact.
I have watched almost every Bucks games this season. It seems like he gets at least four FTs a game from "intentional" fouls where defenders are trying to stop him from shooting.
Zion and lebron really gets no calls it’s kinda gross too some times he’ll just get hit on the arm or hand with no call. it’s especially bad for lebron no clue why he has to get tackled out the air or elbowed in the face for a whistle lol
I mean I doubt that refs are actually reffing Bron unfairly, that just doesn’t make any sense. More likely he doesn’t sell contact bc he’s not a great ft shooter and would rather go around contact for a bucket than go into it for a foul. And he’s old, another good reason to avoid contact
Giannis deserves every single one of those FTAs. Yeah some of the calls are a bit soft but fouls nonetheless. It’s Zion and LeBron who are getting reffed unfairly. Would be nice if they were reffed the way Giannis is reffed.
Lebron actually gets zero calls, I really don’t understand why. And it really hurts us because regularly he gets hacked, goes down, and the other team gets a quick bucket in transition
It's pretty easy to explain. Giannis and Ja are fast as fuck, the most common way you get free throws in the paint is a collision of two players when the defender is trying to move sideways and stay in front of the offensive player, ja and Giannis are always trying to step or euro around people.
Giannis and Ja make sense, Giannis always initiates contact and his strides are big enough he can often avoid it being a charge even though he forces a call to be made. Ja is just small and athletic so it’s much easier to see fouls called on him, additionally he’s a crafty flopper.
Wouldn’t some of the difference here be explained by driving to the basket? I have no stats to back up, but I’d wager Giannis/Ja drive much more, and more quickly, than the other 3.
No one ever talks about Game 5 Grizz vs Wolves. That was a very important game wouldve decided the series. Grizz down like 7-8 with 2 minutes left. Ja morant just runs full speed into the paint over and over again and gets so many free throw calls leading to them winning. Refs love ja
This has been his greatest slight, even beyond his being robbed of the defensive player of the year award. If he had the same calls Jordan, Giannis, and others of their ilk had, he would have easily passed Kareem's record by now. What makes him the GOAT is scoring isn't even his greatest strength.
You even glance at Giannis he's going to the line. Watching that big dude slam into people and grey rewarded for it with FT's made me respect Steph Curry that much more considering his height and lack of calls going his way. Truly inspirational.
Some sell contact and others don’t, also Bron isn’t a great ft shooter, he’s probably trying to get around contact and score instead of go into the contact and get to the line. Might be tryin to protect his body too, dude is 38
I would take a look at this and say well, as bigger stronger guys Zion, AD, and Bron aren't gonna get some calls that less built players will cause it takes more to bump them enough to notice. Giannis being on there kind of ruins the argument.
Its mostly because giannis except for physical is also crazy fast for his size so he can react to defenders by eurostep around them and force contact when the defender moves to re position , for me i wish they were non calls but the rules are what they are
Guys who age and are always hurt, seek contact less. It's about the aggressive Actions towards the defenders not JUST attempts at the rim. You can have soft attempts at the rim and intentionally avoid context. James is in year 20, of course he's seeking less contact. And AD is always looking for an excuse not to bang down low.
AD and Bron fade away a lot. Zion has usually bulled his way there and initiated contact, and he has shortish arms so he doesn't get hacked and grabbed as much. Giannis bulls his way there too but he's so impossibly long that he gets a ton of arm contact.
Kyle Korver said it best.
Both those dudes played for the Jazz in different eras
It’s crazy to watch the arc from Bron getting superstar calls to virtually no calls at this stage in his career.
It goes both ways, he doesn't get calls on offense or defense. Refs act like he doesn't exist
It’s been like this for a very long time, wild that some people are just noticing
Bron never got harden or Giannis level calls tho.
Lebron's never really gotten calls relative to his playstyle and stature. Here are a few sample FTR from various ATG players:
Idk if he ever really got superstar calls tbh. Even when he was getting calls when he was younger, he had to flop for them to notice the contact.
I never thought he got the calls he deserved.
He doesn’t sell contact. Despite some old hatorade YouTube compilations that might tell you otherwise. He isn’t even in the same league as today’s stars in terms of embellishing to get to the line. Sadly, that stuff matters more than anything to refs.
This is where being slower hurts for foul calls tho…in many ways Lebron is even and finishing through a defender, while Giannis is ahead or going OVER a defender.
Lmaoo yeah, he used to get ja morant’s whistle, now he gets Steph’s
that's what happens when you spend a decade plus flopping and no one takes you serious anymore
Why is this the case? Genuinely curious it does seem like he does get fouled
For those who watched their games, would you reckon it to be fair or not ?
Zion and Lebron's are not fair, Davis and Giannis are fair, Morant's is friendly
Zion, Ja morant, and Lebron are not fair. AD is about right. He typically avoids contacts. Giannis I’m torn. He’s fair but playing defense against him is unfair. He causes a lot of contact so I feel they should be no calls cause he’s so physical, you have to be physical back at him but by being physical their fouls.
Zion should be getting very close to Giannis’s numbers.
Bron should be attempting a few more FTs per game, but he actually shies away from contact a bit too. So, as always, answer lies somewhere in the middle.
bron gets away with just as many offensive fouls; it's fair
If you really watch the game, it's not someone is getting favorable/unfavorable calls.
It’s genuinely wild how few FTA Bron gets
It’s always been really bad with him but this year it feels particularly egregious. Dudes are just hanging off him when he’s trying to do a simple lay up and the refs are looking at him like you want that record you’re gonna earn it the hard way
It's wild but it's also an old story. Has been years since when refs stopped calling Lebron fairly. And there's nothing he can do to change it.
And the nephews on this sub will have you think he gets 20 free throw attempts or something
2 points is not 2 points. I’ll explain it to you later.
Zion gets an absolutely unbelievably bad whistle. It's improved the last 3 games so hopefully refs are correcting that going forward.
It's corrected by giving less calls so they don't help a small market team
Zion had a game a few weeks ago where he scored 23 points on 11/18 shooting. Basically all from the paint yet attempted 1 free throw
The recent thunder game was awful too. SGA had 18 (!!!) FTA to Zion’s 1.
Haven’t seen much Zion yet this year but I assume people just GTFO of his way when he comes charging toward basket
Zion a monster. Only joker can put some resistance.. I think . otherwise hes a bull in a china shop
I mean, I see Zion as Shaq Jr. - I’m not standing in front of him or any other bull dozer in attempt to block a shot
I think Zion is gonna deal with the same foul call issues that shaq did. He’s so strong that guys just bounce off of him, and that hurts his chances on foul calls. Shaq got fouled basically every time he got the ball so it might not be quite as bad for Zion, but it’s going to be something to consider when observing these stats for him.
LeBron hasn't averaged 8 FTA a game over a season in a decade. With how much he drives and how much contact his body absorbs, that just doesn't feel right.
We're seeing the same thing with Zion. He just doesn't react to contact and so the refs don't call anything. The game against OKC was especially egregious. SGA shot 18 FT, while Zion had 1... on 17 shots in the paint.
I admit I don't watch a ton of Lebron games, but when I catch him in the regular season or see him in the playoffs he is almost always the one initiating contact when driving to the basket.
Jordan and all the other all time greats didn’t need to beg for calls. Lebitch has no excuses. This why he’s not even top 10
The LeBron thing bums me out, but it follows the familiar path of players getting fewer attempts as they age. LeBron finishes around rather than through contact more than he used to, but he still seems to get officiated like a guy who's too strong to get the whistle. To me, that argument should go away if the dude is 38. Just a take from a biased LeBron fan.
He isn't getting past people like he used to. Before when he was going to the paint he was so fast the defense was clearly scrambling and fouls were more obvious. Now when he creates contact at the rim the defense was there just as fast as he was. That extra tenth of a second difference is the difference between clear fouls and a no-call.
An example is the Giannis play with Bron
Ja for sure tries to finish around people. He has the athletic ability to do so. Difference is he’s tiny compared to Lebron.
Maybe it's because the league would rather market younger players so doesn't give older players calls
It's crazy how the league doesn't tell refs something. Lebron, their biggest financial incentive by far, is getting fucking demolished every time he gets to the rim and they never call shit. Like, even if they don't care about fairness at all, you'd think they'd still do it just because of money, but no.
Eh I doubt Bron is actually getting unfair calls, more likely he doesn’t sell contact bc he’s not a great ft shooter. Makes more sense for him to try and avoid the contact and score. Also probably doesn’t want to go directly into ppl like the young guys will, man is 38 and probably wants to keep his body in good shape
Bron would crush the scoring records and his numbers would be even more boosted (and that’s on his already insane numbers for year 19) if he got the FTs he deserved. Guess the refs still think that old man is a locomotive train lmao
You know how this sub was clowning on LeBron when he said he needs to learn how to flop? I think that LeLiar was finally telling the truth. We’ve reached that level of insanity.
LeBron has some of the most haters in sports. So it’s nothing new they deny the numbers
This whole thread is trash. Giannis is a trash FT shooter and gets wrapped up a lot. LeBron is an average FT shooter, players don’t intentionally foul him
We know Bron knows how to flop. He just has done less of it lately.
Lebron flops in other situations but he doesn’t when he’s driving to the basket
This is what I dont get.. why some players have friendly whistle and some don't?
“We need to start a dialogue”
Zion's whistle is a joke he definitely deserves more free throws
We’re definitely at a generation crossroads of superstar respect. I would prefer if it wasn’t so inconsistent. Lebron deserves way more calls at this stage just a respect thing.
It’s not even about respect calls he literally gets clobbered every drive to the basket
Have they called any carries on Ja yet?
he does it on every drive
Would be pretty hard for them to be consistent about calling carries on Ja tbh, given that he carries nearly every possession. Would be pretty great if they’re just saving up for the playoffs tho and every time he touches the ball there’s basically an instant whistle
Yep. Quite a few. All deserved.
I saw one last month, it was a weird and superfast behind the back that was just clearly illegal even if you didn't actually see what he did.
Dude just goes into any thread that mentions Ja and starts hating lmao. Sad life
Kind of weird to see the Lakers of all teams get this bad of a whistle lol
Historically maybe but I wouldn’t say lakers have had a favorable whistle the last decade.
The stats here def help, but it’s also why watching games is important lol. On another note, Zion is getting done pretty dirty as well
Yeah. For all the talk about how “refs rig it for the Lakers”…still waiting to see this conspiracy take shape. Hasn’t been a thing since the early 2000s🤷♂️
Giannis is shooting 61% free throws. How much of it is just defenders wrapping him up or fouling him hard to put a poor free throw shooter on the line instead of giving up an easy bucket? And with Ja, he is second in drives per game. Shai (#1 in drives) and Luka (#3) are both in the top 5 in free throws per game too. More drives usually leads to more contact.
I have watched almost every Bucks games this season. It seems like he gets at least four FTs a game from "intentional" fouls where defenders are trying to stop him from shooting.
Giannis gets fouled intentionally more than anyone and by a lot.
If you watch pelicans games you'll see the Zion is constantly diving into the paint
Zion and lebron really gets no calls it’s kinda gross too some times he’ll just get hit on the arm or hand with no call. it’s especially bad for lebron no clue why he has to get tackled out the air or elbowed in the face for a whistle lol
Lebron is straight up disrespected, we all watch the games and he just doesn't get calls on obvious shit
LeBron is getting way less calls than he should. The number of times I see him get hit in the head and face and get no calls is startling.
Because the same push will send Ja flying and Lebron just absorbs that contact
Sooooooo Giannis Attemptafreethrow?
Don't tell the shit posters on
of course its true that the laker games are rigged, it happened in that one game 20 years ago, it must be true
I never got why the Lakers fans have the biggest victim complex of all NBA fans.
I mean I doubt that refs are actually reffing Bron unfairly, that just doesn’t make any sense. More likely he doesn’t sell contact bc he’s not a great ft shooter and would rather go around contact for a bucket than go into it for a foul. And he’s old, another good reason to avoid contact
12.2 FTA per game is disgusting…
Based off what? Because you don’t watch basketball? Teams foul Giannis on purpose because he can’t shoot free throws
Giannis deserves every single one of those FTAs. Yeah some of the calls are a bit soft but fouls nonetheless. It’s Zion and LeBron who are getting reffed unfairly. Would be nice if they were reffed the way Giannis is reffed.
people really clowned bron for saying he has to learn how to flop
It’s cuz lebron look human now and the refs can actually see him moving at a “super star but Not elite”speed.
TIL Super Stars aren’t Elite 🤣
If a player gets fouled and misses, that doesn’t count as a FGA right? That’s going to be a factor there.
LeBron gets no calls at the time and the fouls are often egregious.
More Muscles means it's harder to be moved means it's harder for refs to see fouls. Skinny guys are easily moved
Lebron actually gets zero calls, I really don’t understand why. And it really hurts us because regularly he gets hacked, goes down, and the other team gets a quick bucket in transition
Better not look at Joker fighting against players with saws or watch him exit the pool full of great white sharks...
Lebron should probably average around 6 fta a game. He's getting pummeled out there
NBA refs probably sent memos to Refs who are superstars and face of the league. Lebron has not been on memo for last few years.
Yeah you can definitely tell it’s awful officiating. Definitely Refs betting on the game.
Math class in session.
It's pretty easy to explain. Giannis and Ja are fast as fuck, the most common way you get free throws in the paint is a collision of two players when the defender is trying to move sideways and stay in front of the offensive player, ja and Giannis are always trying to step or euro around people.
Giannis and Ja make sense, Giannis always initiates contact and his strides are big enough he can often avoid it being a charge even though he forces a call to be made. Ja is just small and athletic so it’s much easier to see fouls called on him, additionally he’s a crafty flopper.
Wouldn’t some of the difference here be explained by driving to the basket? I have no stats to back up, but I’d wager Giannis/Ja drive much more, and more quickly, than the other 3.
No one ever talks about Game 5 Grizz vs Wolves. That was a very important game wouldve decided the series. Grizz down like 7-8 with 2 minutes left. Ja morant just runs full speed into the paint over and over again and gets so many free throw calls leading to them winning. Refs love ja
I think part of the reason LeBrons ft attempts have gone down is because he's not as explosive as he used to be going at the rim.
not sure. Even during Heat days he didnt rlly get the foul calls than he did during his cavs days.
mfs really love to pretend they don’t understand why players with more muscle mass don’t get the same whistle
Giannis has plenty of muscle mass
What's the reason for Embiid? He has more muscle mass, and half of his shots are jumpers, so why should he get so many foul calls?
This has been his greatest slight, even beyond his being robbed of the defensive player of the year award. If he had the same calls Jordan, Giannis, and others of their ilk had, he would have easily passed Kareem's record by now. What makes him the GOAT is scoring isn't even his greatest strength.
Ja got to be the best paint scoring guard since Wade right?
It's kinda sad to me seeing how much
Kyrie, Curry, Ja, and Westbrook are probably in the discussion (in their primes)
yes, he literally led the league in points in the paint last year.
Guess Kyrie Irving Doesn’t exist
You even glance at Giannis he's going to the line. Watching that big dude slam into people and grey rewarded for it with FT's made me respect Steph Curry that much more considering his height and lack of calls going his way. Truly inspirational.
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Still hurts huh?
Some sell contact and others don’t, also Bron isn’t a great ft shooter, he’s probably trying to get around contact and score instead of go into the contact and get to the line. Might be tryin to protect his body too, dude is 38
I'd get out of LeBron and Zion's way too.
Do you realize that if someone is shooting and it gets called a foul and he misses, it doesn't count as an attempt?
Refs discriminate against big bois
Except Giannis.
FGA the rim doesn’t mean they get fouled at the rim.
Giannis is Embiid with good pr
I would take a look at this and say well, as bigger stronger guys Zion, AD, and Bron aren't gonna get some calls that less built players will cause it takes more to bump them enough to notice. Giannis being on there kind of ruins the argument.
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Its mostly because giannis except for physical is also crazy fast for his size so he can react to defenders by eurostep around them and force contact when the defender moves to re position , for me i wish they were non calls but the rules are what they are
Guys who age and are always hurt, seek contact less. It's about the aggressive Actions towards the defenders not JUST attempts at the rim. You can have soft attempts at the rim and intentionally avoid context. James is in year 20, of course he's seeking less contact. And AD is always looking for an excuse not to bang down low.
Defenders foul Zion and bounce off of him like they were hit by a truck. It's honestly wild to see game after game.
If you don’t watch Lakers games please shut the fuck up. Lebron gets tackled… Doesn’t have shit to do with euro steps. Lmao
Lebron's lack of FTs are a criminal offence
AD and Bron fade away a lot. Zion has usually bulled his way there and initiated contact, and he has shortish arms so he doesn't get hacked and grabbed as much. Giannis bulls his way there too but he's so impossibly long that he gets a ton of arm contact.
Nah Zion gets tons of arm contact on every drive. His arm length doesn't matter there.
Giannis bulldozer ball should be a offensive fouls 9/10 times
Now do Steph
I have Zion on my fantasy team, plz don’t give him more free throws
Bron would still be a Top 5 player if he got a fair whistle
And people still call him LeFlop.. which is crazy