Education should aim to cultivate success, not just stress. It must rediscover its roots as 'scholē' – a place of leisurely, learned discussion.

  1. Education should aim to cultivate knowledge. “Success” is a vague term that means lot of things to different people.

  2. It’s not vague so much as it is meaningless without qualification. It means “the achievement of an end.” The question is, what end?

  3. Yes, the title of this post was written incorrectly. It isn't what the article says anyway. The article speaks of current measures of success being a problem then it doesn't mention success through the entire rest of discussion.

  4. That may be so, and I would argue that students should aim to learn and develop. In places with compulsory education, is the stress not more likely caused by the fact that it’s compulsory in a harsh way? The point of this OP seems to miss the mark in that case, or at least uses cumbersome and overly complicated and difficult language to aim at a solution.

  5. my definition of success in life is quite simply being able to do my hobbies as i wish (outside of work) and generally be happy. i dont care how much money i make, as long as it's enough to get by and enjoy myself. some people, however, define success in life as having so much money that you don't know what to do with it and that's valid too.

  6. Knowledge domains are at the shallowest level of learning. IMHO, public education should aim primarily at functional abilities for living and working in contemporary society.

  7. It's dumb because I sucked in the education sytem but am doing really well on the job market. I wasted so much time trying to survive school when I could have been thriving in a career.

  8. So much this... and more effort should go into identifying interests and strengths and encouraging students into subjects which interest them.

  9. I remember my 4th grade report card to my mom. "She shows extreme interest in science but fails to pay attention during language arts. She needs to reapply the additional interest for science into LA."

  10. I agree, but also think there should be a compromise so the core skills from other subjects are gained. All knowledge is transferable and can be applied in different areas of life if you're open minded enough. To stay with only what interests you means valuable lessons you could have learned in subjects that didn't interest you would be missed.

  11. I agree with you but I only see myself as a counter-example. I had no clue what I liked in elementary school and through my further education I majorly changed my interests about 3 times. Had I put all my eggs in one basket then I probably would need to do something I really dislike by now.

  12. I think there could be more winners if jobs that don't need a college education pay a living wage. And we have workers rights.

  13. I once read a fantastic piece by a high school principal about how he/she believed our current education system, which is not at all developmentally appropriate, contributes to the high suicide rate in kids. Wish I could find it.

  14. hahahaha. in an ideal world, sure. but this world is run by demonic greedy monsters that have no intention on helping you, quite the opposite really they enjoy seeing people suffer

  15. Discussion?!?! What the heck is that? Oh you tell me it's not the thing, where we insult each others character and then proceed down a line of fallacious reasoning in order to "win" an "argument" before we yell at each other?

  16. Crazy how this person is writing about education yet seems to not know anything about educational theory and how all modern education theory is literally designed to try and make learning feel like this while still keeping up with the demands of the curriculum pacing.

  17. In todays society school is a capitalistic tool for creating and measuring a laborer. Without rigor, there is no reason to pay me more and you less.

  18. right now college is set up so trust fund babies can succeed early and everyone else has to struggle and fight for everything they earn. i doubt the powers that be are in any mood to change this

  19. I'm going to come at this from the perspective of an educator and say that a lot of this depends on the quality of students you have. I can't teach a course that is free form and discussion based if I have students that aren't interested in "learned discussion" or refuse to do any sort of reading etc out of class.

  20. If they aren’t interested why are they there? I.E. why make people go through courses they don’t want to be in, like all higher education makes you do.

  21. Unlikely to happen at any point in the foreseeable future imo. There is far too much money to be made off of tuition, books, sponsored brand equipment, college team memorabilia and so on.

  22. To be successful, it is often hard and stressful. Most people only see the glory of being successful, but neglect the blood, tear, sweat and toil behind success.

  23. Education should not be a set of training programs for future employment; the purpose of education is the development of the young to become critical thinking humans by the teaching of the formal and social sciences, mathematics, humanities and the arts. Democracy needs citizens that are able to think for themselves and education should nourish this ability.

  24. Education can't aim to do anything without a complete societal shift in the way we live. The average adult cannot afford to waste 4+ years of their life ( and money) learning for fun, with no payout, with how things work now.

  25. No. Education should aim to teach how to be happy. Period. What is success? A lot of money? Be famous? have a big house and a big car?

  26. How do you teach happiness in a consumerist and capitalist society without perpetuating the exact things that have been proven that make us unhappy?

  27. Education generally can do both, but perhaps it should be communicated clearly whether individual professors, classes, programs, or even universities/schools are aimed at (leisurely) erudition or professional skills… or even other objectives

  28. That's why I prefer YouTube videos. Learning without incentive is so much better. But at the same time it's just entertainment. None of it requires me to practice a specific skill.

  29. The thing is this targets universities when in reality it is better applied to children, whom have more active dopaminergic systems and thus learn more easily about a broad range of subjects. When dopamine is released, the most dominant active neural structures grow, and the older you are, typically the more dominant these structures are. I’m not sure this approach could work with young adults, as their dopaminergic systems are more narrow and selective. In that case, a healthy amount of stress is good, as even if you don’t enjoy learning you will still be pushed to do it anyway. Stress itself inhibits memorization, generally, so too much is definitely a problem. Obviously, if you could enjoy learning a particular subject, that’d be ideal, but I don’t think that’s realistic. If that doesn’t work, an environment designed to create a healthy amount of stress would be good.

  30. Nietzsche once said "education has little to do with the accumulation of knowledge and much to do with the learning of self-control". I'm paraphrasing I believe.

  31. I was always told by a uni lecturer that education was about broadening the mind and doing a degree was about learning to learn. I don't think that is now necessarily true and with a child completing high school it is definitely geared towards getting x grade to go to y uni course.

  32. I heard that advice so many times and I hate it. I can certainly tell you it probably came from a liberal arts program director. I remember looking around my class and being shocked at how many people were clueless about the direction they wanted to go in.

  33. Am a certified educator, now I clean things for a living. It's more honest. When I set to the task of wiping a table down I know the task is being completed. When I was trying to actually, really, truly educate, the obstacles were too much to continue through. I worked with too many bad teachers who never even tried to inject a real lesson into their systematically "necessary" lesson. Every English teacher I have ever known teaches that Animal Farm is a book about the evils of Socialism. We're fucked boys and girls.

  34. "Education," doesn't actually have any aims. Educators have aims and learners have aims. The aim of getting or providing an education, in a healthy society, should be to cultivate happy people with a deep sense of fulfillment.

  35. School is not about bettering people. It's about selecting for a certain type of person who is willing to comply and submit for promotion.

  36. Alan watts has a good talk about this. A scholar is one who can afford to waste time studying what interests them instead of being worked to the bone.

  37. Years ago, I read a student's account of attending Colorado College, in which they would sit in their dorms (ok, possibly toking) and debate current events in the context of sociology and philosophy. If true, it sounded like the fairy tale people once had of higher education. I was genuinely envious.

  38. education should aim to cultivate knowledge, interests and strengths of each individual. Education should be about igniting a spark of passion in people for what they love and help them identify it. Most people struggle with what they love to do and what they are supposed to do or in a lot of cases don't even know what they really like doing or love to do. They choose paths which they don't like because it is what they are supposed to do and don't know what they really love to do. And thus "what they are supposed to do" is all they have and they lead mediocre and depressed lives. When graduating, if students have identified their interests, they can work on growing their passion honing their skills.

  39. Getting a stronger education may garner both. Success isn't a definite with a solid education, but stress induced from having to earn it is a given.

  40. It makes me wonder if the author has some fiscal privilege behind them. As if all that franticness is just a choice people make.

  41. I've noticed stuff that starts out leisurely (from education to hobbies to companies [e.g. Airbnb and Lyft]) has a tendency to become gamified and gradually inch toward min-maxing over time.

  42. Education should aim knowledge and critical thinking. The definition of sucess is different for everybody. We shouldn't teach kids how to be sucessful, but how to accoplish their golas in life, wether it's ruling a country or being a librarian. Succes will be an outcome if knowledge is accurately spread and learnt

  43. I'm not one of those people that thinks "I had to be bored and suffer lots of stress in school so kids growing up now should as well" I agree that putting too much stress on kids in school is counter productive. At the same time I'm skeptical about an approach that says we should just eliminate all stress from school such as tests and grades. For most of us, life includes a fair amount of stress and if you have to work for a living you will be getting "graded" on your performance and will be compensated with more responsibility and better pay if you perform well. So having some way to measure and incentivize good performance in school is IMO both a rational way to encourage children to learn more and a good preparation for the real world.

  44. Of course. However, since those attending school back in the day were free to engage in leisurely learned discussion because they were supported by either slave labor or slave labor in everything but name, broadening this model to the population as a whole is going to be difficult.

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