Before the God thing

  1. Born and raised in America - when I was a child, we had a teacher (old lady, Presbyterian minister's wife) who would teach us to leave "god" out, telling us that god isn't concerned with which country we belong to.

  2. My catholic teacher told me that my immigrant Muslim friend was going to hell because she didn't accept Jesus as her personal/holy savior.

  3. "Under God" wasn't added till I believe the 1950's, just like "In God We Trust" was added to money. You know, because that's how you fight communism. I'm told.

  4. Fun Fact: it was all created as a marketing ploy to sell flags. I hate that people believe things like this were originated by the "founding fathers" when they were just later power/money grabs. "This is the way it has ALWAYS been done!" pfft

  5. I once heard someone dissect the various changes throughout the pledge's history, and suggest that a much better version would be the simpler

  6. I have a problem with kids pledging allegiance to anything. They do not have the experience to do so, and exploiting their inexperience is at best an indoctrination.

  7. As a non-American I had only seen the new version with “under God” and it always seemed strangely ungrammatical to me. The original makes more sense.

  8. Literally thinking the same thing, this country was meant to be indivisible until a bunch of folks decided to put "God," in the way. Since then it's slowly but surely fractured.

  9. We should change it back to what it was meant to be officially. Boy oh boy woild that cause some controversy

  10. And it's like, it was explicitly added as way of labelling atheists as the enemy, but if you're an atheist living in America today, nobody gives a shit if you find the "under God" part offensive. Everyone always told me to just get over it, it's not a big deal, just don't say that part. No one can give you any rational reason why it needs to be there, but you're the irrational one if you want it removed.

  11. The pledge itself was conceived and written by a flag salesman in order to sell flags to schools. He saw a huge potential market if every classroom HAD to have a flag, but how do you go about doing that? And if that doesn't sum up America I don't know what does.

  12. Also changed the great motto E pluribus unum (from many, one) to "in god we trust" which is some straight up bullshit.

  13. Using religion to unify the nation might've worked in 1954, but nearly 70 years later it should be removed. It's insulting to anyone that's not religious. That being said, having to recite the pledge every day doesn't really do anything for patriotism as far as I can tell, so the pledge in its entirety should be used rarely, not daily. As we've seen, the pledge hasn't stopped this country from being divisible, it's as divided as it has been since the civil war.

  14. Well it’s proving correct. The Theocrats in the GOP are doing their best to divide The People.

  15. Fun fact, Francis Bellamy (guy who wrote the pledge) was a minister. So even a man of God did not include anything religious into the pledge.

  16. Funner fact, the Bellamy salute which accompanied the pledge (one arm outstretched upwards towards the flag, flat palm) was abandoned in 1942. Wonder what caused that?

  17. Another fun fact he wrote it to sell magazine subscriptions that came with a flag. It's nonsense propaganda aimed to sell magazines and flags. Lol!

  18. It was originally written to help sell magazines to schools, so it was just a marketing ploy. And it was written by a socialist.

  19. I think a lot of people misunderstand separation of church and state. It basically means the government can’t tell you what religion to practice/not practice.

  20. I read somewhere that they added the under god thing as a PR sort of thing that was driven by the cold war, trying to define Americans as god loving and the USSR communists as heathens or something to that effect... The whole "god is with us so we must be right" bs that was used in the crusades many years ago.

  21. This is a really casual way to put it, as if the United States was the bad actor for changing the pledge. The Soviet Union had led a brutal campaign to stamp out religion. It was the basis for Soviet-style communism, which as we know ended with something like 2-5 million deaths - perhaps more, and most believe more than the Holocaust. It’s super easy to be like “dumbass Americans and their dumbass god and pledge” as you type from 2021, but the world was very scary to most people back then.

  22. I’m a Christian, but I wish we’d go back to this. America is for everyone, not just those that believe in God.

  23. The number of people who don't know that "under God" was added to the Pledge in the mid-1950's during McCarthyism and the "Red Scare" always surprises me. Especially among young conservatives. The old conservatives just don't want to talk about it and act like "our founders put it there when they wrote the Pledge of Alliegance."

  24. Also, many of the founders were not really religious in our modern sense. They were not exactly atheists but they were Deists and there was a little bit of controversy about some of that. Separation of church and state looks the way it does not because people wanted to come in and make a American Taliban in 1776, but because some of the founding fathers wanted the exact opposite.

  25. Religion is supposed to be an optional thing in the US, not a requirement. "God" shouldn't be anywhere near government

  26. Makes sense. It's fucking weird they have a pledge to a flag, one that kids in schools have to repeat daily as if they might forget they're American.

  27. Seriously. Let’s pledge to a flag instead of the creator of the universe.. Not to mention, pledging allegiance to a flag of a country who is founded on slavery and genocide.

  28. It would still be creepy that the US coerces children to recite this every day even without the god bit.

  29. I grew up in Germany and it's always been super strange to me to see people be so proud of their country and displaying the flag everywhere, here in the US. Probably because of our own problematic history and being raised to feel shame and stay quiet and humble about it, I guess.

  30. When I learned that American schoolchildren effectively* have to recite that every fucking day I was wierded out. North Korean vibes.

  31. The origin of the pledge was to help stoke a greater national unity in a time when people often more greatly associated themselves with the city or state they were from.

  32. One point I saw made somewhere before that I think makes sense is that we are still a very young country, we are only 245 years old compared to countries like Italy, Germany, England, etc. that are much, much older. . . So we are still beating our chests and showing how patriotic we are, while all the other countries mentioned are pretty much established facts in the world.

  33. Slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person until slavery was abolished in 1865. Women couldn’t vote until about 100 years ago. We’re making progress in general, but for every 2 steps forward we seem to take 1 step back. The last 5 years have felt like a big step back.

  34. I thought communist parties were evil by brainwashing young children and make them join the "young pioneer corps". It turns out, US is no better.

  35. Inserting God into our government has brewed hate and devisiveness in our country. There is nothing it has done to benefit us.

  36. You could post this to conservative groups pages and get mass upvotes because unironically they love to use the allegiance as propaganda and wouldn’t even notice that god was missing.

  37. The people of the USA are about to cower and fold to Christian authoritarian fanatics who will have no problem starting WWIII with China so they can march their batshit arses off to heaven.

  38. My parents were born in the 40s/50s and raised us without religion because their parents pushed that onto them. I hated saying this every morning because "under god" was not something I believed in and to this day feels offensive. Religion should be separate from everything. School. Politics. None should have any religious belief in it.

  39. I teach American history at a small private school where we still "say" the Pledge of Allegiance every morning.

  40. I hate the god part. People forget that it wasn’t always part of it and this is a country for both freedom of and freedom from religion.

  41. If the Communist had embraced religion/god we'd have seen the US do the opposite and be extremely secular. I find that a little funny.

  42. As someone who wasn't raised religious, I have never understood this country's obsession with God. Ironic too considering one of the main premises for founding the USA was the separation of church and state...

  43. The whole “God” thing was put in during Senator Joseph McCarthy’s “Red Scare” from the late 1940’s to the late 1950’s.

  44. The whole god thing wasn't added until the mid 20th century, we forgot our founding father's ideals on separation of Church and state. I have no issue with people wanting to have a religion, just leave the rest of us out of it.

  45. *Except black people, brown people, native americans, women, poors, gays, non-christians, and pretty much everyone that's not a land owning white male**.

  46. Indoctrination of children, to god, or a flag, is abhorrent and leads to nationalism which is a core of what’s wrong with the USA right now.

  47. The true pledge to the flag. I don’t think believing in God should be a requirement for loving your nation, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with loving your nation unconditionally either.

  48. "under god"..."liberty and justice for all"...the whole thing is bullshit and should be shelved

  49. That’s how I recite it. You can put other shit in there. I’ll just take it back out.

  50. So, that's the original pledge. It was written when the Civil War was still in recent memory, and the "indivisible" part was on purpose.

  51. It should also be pointed out that this was written by someone selling American flags and wasn’t a part if the founding documents. It’s in the same category as Green Lanterns pledge.

  52. I know the point of this post is to comment on the addition of "under God" to the pledge, but am I the only one who thinks it's really weird that we even have a pledge to a flag? I mean, if we were asked to pledge allegiance to the country itself, maybe. But to a flag?

  53. I think God was originally added during the Cold War. Of course rising tensions between the US and the Soviet Union, the US found one way they were different from the Soviet Union, religious tolerance. And it’s pretty self explanatory in the way they embraced that, by having millions recite it every single day.

  54. Many europeans originally came to the U.S. for religious freedom (also plundering resources was a large driver)

  55. Religious reference or not, why did an allegedly free society ever have a loyalty oath? Loyalty oaths are something despots force upon their subjects.

  56. I always describe American politics as hypocritical. The parties in power have conflicting beliefs, while the progressive and libertarian parties are true to their beliefs. Republicans will tout that the commies have propaganda and that’s bad but love forcing people to pledge their allegiance to the flag every morning and attacking anyone who doesn’t follow suit. True libertarians say the same about Russia and all, but will also realize that the same happens in America. Too bad everything else they say is idiotic.

  57. My Senior year of highschool, I had to do a "convincing speach". I decided to do "Why 'Under God' should be removed from the pledge of allegiance, with the original pledge and the date it changed as part of my point.

  58. As a non-American, it's so fucking weird that school children are forced to recite this in a country that brags about it's freedom.

  59. When I went to school in the north, this was the pledge I learned. Moved to the south, and was mocked for weeks because I would leave out the "under god" bit.

  60. Yeah, boomers be triggered when you mention it was originally written by a collectivist and the “Under God” part was added in the fifties, because communism bad.

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