Ex-Labor Secretary Says Second American Civil War Has Begun

  1. I would like to give the divorce a try. When the red states bankrupt themselves, we'll let them back into the union on our terms.

  2. "a civil war has already begun" that involves not actually fighting or splitting into separate countries :-/

  3. Civil Cold War is what I've been calling it. Same root issues, but we are not geographically separated anymore so it'll take place along political borders and online (with some inevitable hot skirmishes, like Jan 6). Musk knows what he's doing by taking control of Twitter. He's going to have a sociopathic blast with it.

  4. Is that really likely though? If GOP gets control, will they will they be happy with just a looser union among the states? I don't think so...

  5. I call this "Rich Divorce" It is for people who are so rich, it is too much of a bother to divide assets, so they just move into their separate houses and do a trip once a year when they can stand each other.

  6. You seem or at least disregard that the extremist right is heavily armed. And those people are looking for a reason to shoot. Any reason real or perceived.

  7. What sucks is a lot of us don't have a choice of where we live. To pack and move to a state that is in line with your beliefs. How about politicians working together for us and a better life. Why is it in a political ad the first words are "I'm going to fight" instead of " I will work wih".

  8. If there arent some very high profile people prosecuted over Jan 6, it will be an "every 4 year" event that will escalate more and more each time.

  9. I mean, in other countries politicians go to jail all the time, but USA sweeps politician's corruption and crimes under the rug to avoid bad optics because, in a two-party system, this would really hurt the party they're part of.

  10. Accountability has left the country a long long time ago. Minority and poor people were the first to suffer the consequences.

  11. I always liked the ending of the movie The Sum of All Fears where all the bad guys are systematically hunted down. Very cathartic, but ultimately unrealistic :-(

  12. Yeah, have felt previously like others that some high officials morally deserve punishment but that very likely could destroy our country. Not with this, this is different.

  13. Putting them in cuffs is better optics than letting them get away with blatant corruption and insurrection.

  14. The rhetoric around a "cold civil war" ignores the fact that the cold war was marked by a ton of proxy wars. What do proxy wars look like between states? Because I think it will look like a lot of state-sponsored terrorism reaching across borders.

  15. It's already here and it's been here for some time. It's know by different things in different places. Here on Reddit it's the Auntie Network.

  16. And LGBTQ, and posssibly other minorities. Also a civil war opens up interference for more cartel and gang activity in the country. Cant get goods like abortion pills where you gonna go?

  17. We don’t talk about the upcoming Underground Railroad, but yes. Also, not to dilute the OG Underground Railroad, we should decide on a new name.

  18. We are closer than you think when someone gets absolute power (Trump tried and came as close to anyone in US history) all they need to do is advocate violence against their perceived enemies and the followers will go on a rampage. Trump came close to this as well but did not attain complete control and power. This will be tried again now that it was shown it could be possibly done.

  19. I agree. I think the whole CRT boogeyman strategy hasn't been thought all the way out, either. Its poisoned another generation with our racist bullshit, and started a lot of young people down a path of resentment.

  20. Not really as the US will typically muck through it. The vast majority (who are moderates on positions) won’t give up ordering their bacon double cheeseburgers in the drive thru for the hard life of a revolutionary (aka hiding out with a weeks worth dry peanut butter on Wonderbread sandwiches like mentioned in Life During Wartime by the Talking Heads).

  21. There are prisons charging boarding now too? I’ve already heard of it in many many jails - I worked in one (not as a jailer) and saw the documents referring to the cost in the release area.

  22. You speak truth, the court has not even ruled on this matter,and already progressive states and a handful of corporations have already developed possible work-arounds to provide abortion services for anyone who needs it. 30 years of fighting by the right can possibly undone in a couple of months with some creative people in positions of political and financial influence. That’s why even before the supposed success of the pro-choice movement, they are already afraid of the possibility of mail delivery, neighboring states offering the service, corporations subsidizing travel for those who need services, and I’m sure more ideas are coming.

  23. America needs an Anti-Corruption party. Corruption is the root cause of all of our national imbalance, not guns or abortion. If the focal point of everything we strive for politically is framed under that lens, the rest falls into place.

  24. We’re in the same situation as we were before the last civil war. Ffs, the Union was already talking about dissolution 10 years after the Declaration of Independence. It was a lot of placating and negotiation that allowed the US to stay whole for 100 years. Strong leadership kept it together and the threat of secession was always present. Read your history books and you’ll see that this was here before. It’s nothing new.

  25. That is a distraction to hide the fact that the wealthy have ended any real democracy in America and write our laws.

  26. Biggest problem with this take, is that there’s a president and federal representation still. If the regressive gop gains an outsized representation in the federal gov, and executive branch, they can inflict pain on everyone.

  27. It's amazing that Reich doesn't even mention the possibility that an authoritarian federal government would impose its will on blue states that attempt to protect civil rights. How does he not see that coming?

  28. I can't imagine Reich voting for Republicans so i don't know why he needs to feel culpable. Regardless of the blame, we need to accept the reality of the impending civil war and protect our rights, with force, if necessary. Everyone who can should arm themselves. Blue states need to act like the sanctuary states they will become. Make sure police are sternly reminded they work for the state, not federal government. Mourning will get us nowhere.

  29. yea? so this is news or something? WE've known this since Jan 6th, when the terrorists stormed our Federal Capitol and tried to hang the vice president and murder members of congress in cold blood, over a lie told to them by a deranged lunatic. So wheres the fire

  30. David Brin has been talking about this for years. He would say this is the latest phase of the war that stretches back to the revolution. A fight between one side that wants to improve America and a side that wants to control America.

  31. I kinda get the feeling that most people would abandon this country to chase richer opportunities if they weren’t economically enslaved to it. Oooo have I said too much? 🫢

  32. While Reich is correct, it is also true that the ideas upon which Red States exist are dying out. From religion to bigotry to human sexuality to family relations the “Old,” is dying (literally) and being supplanted by a more liberal (by which I mean the classic liberal not the Americanized “pinko,” liberal) idea-set based on new realities, new understandings, and generally higher education levels globally (though I’ll admit it appears we Americans are getting more stupid by the day). The long term trend lines bear this out.

  33. Especially as the boomers die out. Leaving a small, even more minor minority in their place. Too weak to pass legislation.

  34. I literally just posted almost the same exact ideas. I could have saved 15 minutes and just upvoted your comment. Premature posting problem…

  35. The sorting affect has been happening in America for a long time, so everyone is getting into more homogenized groups, which is why you can experience the 'dying' of ideas while someone in a different part of the country could experience the exact opposite. We will move back away from strong federal government to stronger state governments that act more independent of each other; or we'll experience an exchange of dictators every 4 years as different homogeneous groups become encouraged to vote by not getting their way under the others rule, in my opinion. Hopefully the first one happens, not the second so life stays more consistent for people.

  36. Cannot see an actual separation - first off, the Red States would lose all their military personnel and equipment along with the funds to support federal activities, like the bases those personnel were stationed at, the USPS, federal highways, FDIC for their banks, Federal courts, etc. etc., NONE of which the States pay enough in taxes to support. No, they'll just continue to try and legislate to claw back something from their total defeat in the culture wars by passing draconian racist and sexist laws and trying to look like a theocracy in their education systems. None of which is going to cause people to rush in and join the fun. As for their business base, can you see Disney staying in a Florida that is NOT part of the USA?

  37. If the US military is 99% on one side or the other, it's over. The fear isn't Federal government vs rebels, it's Federal government vs Federal government. When the military splinters into two and starts actively fighting itself, that's when things get ugly.

  38. I think the political divide in the US is more rural vs urban, than North Vs South, or more accurately, people who live in places where diversity is familiar and sometimes even embraced vs places where most people are like those around them and differences in race, religion, and culture is viewed with suspicion or as a threat to a way of life. In the US, this divide is now represented by an 'L' shaped swath of states rather than just north vs South. I think one of the best cures for racial and cultural prejudice is to travel afar where you learn firsthand that not everyone who is different than you is a bogyman.

  39. If Star Trek: Strange New Worlds S01E01 is correct, then this will be followed by the eugenics war, and then by a nuclear WWIII that will wipe out 650,000 species of plants and animals and 35% of humans day 1.

  40. I have actually been saying that America was going to have another Civil War since I was in high school like 30 years ago.

  41. Look at the Troubles in the Ireland. It's fought with bombings and assassinations. Massacres of civilians by the militaries. Suburbs will build Peace Walls to separate neighborhoods.

  42. I know I’ve seen things in the last 6 years that I didn’t think were possible, but a return to an 1860’s style civil war still doesn’t seem to be where we’re heading. What does seem possible is an American version of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

  43. Judging from what I’ve seen (keep in mind I’m not a expert on these things, but I read a lot of history) It will be less of a civil war and more of a class war.

  44. I wish... the media has turned the conservatives against their own self interests. Workers that have conservative ideology are drones for the wealthy.

  45. That most people can't see this happening already is absolutely amazing. No idea how it will work though because as much as people in blue states like to think they can just separate, the reality is the United States needs "United States".

  46. It hasn’t. But if and when it does happen, I pray it leads to secession. I’m sick of supporting this neanderthals.

  47. The whole essay is great in premise, but so stupid in execution. Like, the whole thing is, “We have two different sides forming: one that wants to roll back abortion rights and suppress queer folks, and the other that gives a shit about people’s well-being. It looks like we’ll never come to a consensus and have to live in division.”

  48. My dream of the day; west coast secession, maybe some east coast secession, leaving the rest to form their own twisted hateful government. Of course this is not something that could/would ever happen, and truly maybe not even should, but I have had my fill of ignorant people not even trying to get a little bit smarter.

  49. I think a better analogy might be what happened in Northern Ireland, but we aren’t there yet. Most people think violence wouldn’t solve any of the underlying issues

  50. “America will still be America” bullshit. This is a divide and conquer strategy ripped straight out of Putin’s playbook. Russian operations are fanning civil strife in U.S., France, Spain, UK, Germany and lol guess Ukraine counts too.

  51. I believe the second American civil war was the battle of Blair Mountain and the third American civil war kicked off with Gingrich and has been slow burning ever since.

  52. Gingrich's fat ass taking a cue from Maury Povich and bloviating on C-SPAN in addition to Limbaugh shitting up the airwaves was definitely laying the ground for the third one.

  53. If history is a teacher, nations that don’t respect the rights of their own citizens don’t care about the borders of other nations either.

  54. What's really scary is lets say its Trump/Biden again and loyalists this time follow through. What happens then? Will states like NJ, NY, CA just go along with a sham? Or just still see Biden as the president? Cause elections will mean nothing if no one believes its legitimacy.

  55. Mmm...."A House Divided Cannot Stand". There are some things on which we can't just "go our own way". We share a national constitution and that will continue cause problems - specifically 2A, and if there is national legislation which is interpreted as having supremacy (eg, a national ban on abortion) for things on which the constitution is silent. Same thing for 1A and RFRA religious 'exemptions' - if a state constitution or law forbade prayer in schools, a US citizen who wished to use their position of authority in any local government capacity could take their case to the SCOTUS and have that state restriction struck down. I do think the current damage will ultimately be reversed (it will take a couple of generations, by which I mean ~40 years) but I don't think we're going to have a nice detente.

  56. Honestly, there is so much division, at this point uniting reds and blues is akin to brainwashing one of the sides. And even if you disagree with "the others," they're still entitled to the freedom of their beliefs. Maybe it is time for a divorce.

  57. The New York Times recognized that Rittenhouse did not, in fact, fire the first shot. Didn't take them long, either.

  58. No, no, please shut up. For the love of god don't take succussion and war, it won't happen, it can't happen. Don't encourage the psychos who to off on Civil war 2

  59. It’s not about encouragement or no encouragement at this point. The point of the essay is that we are beyond that and it may be in some peoples’ interest, both in America and around the world, to come to terms with that. He isn’t the only figure who says this country is on the edge.

  60. What he predicts sounds absolutely wonderful: “a lumbering, mutual decision to go separate ways on most things but remain connected on a few big things (such as national defense, monetary policy and civil and political rights).”

  61. Yeah I mean, that was kinda the idea in the first place. The problem is that was on a much, much smaller scale. I’ve entertained the idea of a legitimate “union of a bunch of little countries”.

  62. Most of the comments here are so hilarious. Please people, go out in the world and see some of it, then come back to the USA kiss the ground, and realize how damn lucky you are.

  63. Name one first world country you have lived in for a month besides the US. Yes the US is better than Uganda. Japan? Norway? Fuck No would anyone think the US was some kind of godsend in comparison.

  64. I keep hearing the media saying how divided we are but honestly I don’t see the division, sure there’s disagreements and radicals but most people seem to get along well enough. Hate the constant second civil war talk.

  65. So, hypothetically speaking, what would you have done had Trump seized power despite losing the vote. If Trump supporters successfully threw out millions of votes under the pretext that they couldn’t be sure a dozen or so votes weren’t legitimate? Would you have done anything? Or just let it be?

  66. It'll be interesting to see where my American family members move to. I hope they'll use the right to return to israel in case anything worse happens in the US.

  67. The time it took to make Aliyah from the US in 2020 was 6-7 Months when the number of American applicants was a few thousand. If shits get crazy, Israel won't even bother trying to help American Jews as they'll be 100% focused on getting the actual Israeli citizens out.

  68. Not defending him, just curious - What is he in the position to do about these issues other than bring attention to them?

  69. I think we just have to wait it out. The real hard liners are about 30% of the population and shrinking.

  70. WW3 has also already begun. The reason why some people don't "see" it is because they believe they are winning. The US will just be the most important battleground.

  71. The fact that one side cannot hold the offending side accountable, to me, shows me this system is not worth propping up. It creates pain, it’s absence will create pain. Most people are in a zero sum game.

  72. Been saying this the past few days. Almost no one I've talked to appreciates the reality of that statement and recent developments.

  73. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ifhtmh/gop_will_not_write_a_2020_platform_pledges/g2p9okx?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

  74. Eh I would think more in terms of Children of Men. Insurgents on both sides performing fire and maneuver campaigns to take key regional infrastructure points, maybe another country would back one viable side as proxy for their interests. Hmmm wait that sounds familiar…

  75. Not for like 10-20 more years I feel like. Like yeah, things are bad but they gotta get so much worse before we go to war

  76. I think the point is it will not be a shooting war, but rather a takeover of government and the installation of a permanent Republican rule as elections will be rigged and the three branches of government unified and controlled by a fearless leader for at least a generation

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