Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended. They did

  1. There is a post going around on Facebook of a school who has a retired military member at the front door with a gun the whole time. That’s their answer is more guns.

  2. Fox News put forward 50 ideas in 24 hours. They ranged from “prayer” to “instill Judeo-Christian values in our kids” (which is literally meaningless) to “arm the teachers” to “arm the students.” One person mentioned mental health, which is a rusted silver lining in this.

  3. It's usually, "Surround the schools with fences and barriers like a fortress, and make sure everyone inside the school is carrying guns and trained to kill."

  4. Why do you want an answer from conservatives? Their actual answer is probably something like “everyone needs to worship Jesus and get rid of the gays” or some nonsense. I could give you an answer as a non-conservative gun owner though: get rid of conservatives, pass universal healthcare and child care, increase education spending, invest in our communities. Not gonna happen though

  5. I still consider myself to be conservative (although definitely not a Republican). I have some mixed feelings about gun laws but here’s the realization I came to yesterday:

  6. Confront the societal issues at hand, there is very little difference between this and the lessons from our mostly botched war on terror. You csnt defeat it with force, the reasons a young man straps on a suicide vest or kills his grandma and a bunch of kids are not very different.

  7. Man I'm a concealed carry license holder and pro second amendment and I have no clue. The cops would've turned me away too if I tried to help the children. Well what's the fucking point of me carrying a gun all the time then. The police won't even let me help and they won't help either . I'm lost guys ,why do I even carry a pistol if I can't help

  8. The goal should be broad mitigation. Not 100% prevention. Or anecdotal prevention. Sometimes air bags and seat belts aren’t enough. But they do save lives

  9. They will always suggest “restrictions” that conveniently dont require them to make any sacrifices.

  10. A mentally deranged kid walked into a gun store on his 18th birthday. He can’t drink a Bud Light for 3 more years, but he was enthusiastically greeted, shown how to operate a rifle, allowed to use the range to practice, and given financing to bring home the AR-15 that day. All 100% legal with as little effort as possible.

  11. There's a video on reddit of a 13 year old getting rejected from buying beer, lottery tickets etc. But he gets hold of a gun. Private sale perhaps, but point stands.

  12. This is my fundamentalist Mom’s response to everything. They don’t have to think up a solution because it’s in God’s hands. Such a fucking bullshit response.

  13. Sandy Hook marked the end of any possibility of gun control in America. Once a country decides that mass murdering children is an unfortunate but bearable consequence of a perceived inalienable right, the debate is over.

  14. Republicans could’ve gotten us publicly funded mental healthcare a dozen times and refused to do anything. They refused to do anything and to this day simply espouse the same old bullshit responses “NOTHING WOULD CHANGE THIS” well yes, republicans passing mental healthcare would mitigate this. You say it’s a mental health problem and you actively vote against mental healthcare - what do you expect?

  15. I still don't understand how Americans get so extremely passionate about guns. I get that there are arguments in favor of guns in certain situations and I also understand that you can't just flip a (legal) switch and get rid of (the need for) guns overnight.

  16. We live under tyranny of the minority, where the minority will not let the majority pass any common sense gun laws.

  17. I totally understand your point and where you’re coming from. I’m tired too, but I am so fucking sick of a defeatist attitude when it comes to shit in this country. I know it’s hard to feel any sort of optimism, especially in the face of something so awful, but we can’t just be like “Aw fuck I guess we should give up.” We are slowly making progress, too slow for a lot of us but we can change shit. Hell we have two of the most left leaning generations ever in Millenials and Gen z Hope is not lost is all I’m saying.

  18. We are a blip in history. The unlikelihood of progress in the coming months doesn't mean the debate is over. Every year the kids who turn 18 were yet more aware, scared, perplexed by the world they grew up in, feeling their mortal peril a bit more than the kids who turned 18 the year before. We are a blip, and it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

  19. That was absolutely a terrifying and haunting moment, but I don't see it as the end. The politicians who defeated gun control after Sandy Hook were voted in by people who are gradually dying off and/or shifting left. And as those groups diminish, the politicians and conservative news networks that cater to them will also fade. There is still a chance for the country to swing into a political balance where Republicans fall from power and all of the gun control we need passed will finally get passed. Hell, that could be today if we just got the turnout we needed from young urban populations. There is a chance and we have to fight.

  20. I firmly believe if the parents, even just a few, released post-mortem photos of their children that politicians would be forced to address the issue. It is too easy for politicians to do nothing because they never have to face the consequences of doing nothing. Let them see what their decisions have resulted in. Let them look. Make them look.

  21. You are pushing a narrative of defeat. Change your messaging. The fight never ends, people just are waking up to that reality.

  22. If this is the case, then are most comments in this thread wasted energy? Shouldn’t we be looking for ways to move forward given this new reality? Perhaps we have less attachment to our kids or children in general?

  23. I was arguing on another post about this with another person. They said they had never been told why gun control would help. I explained how its helped in other countries like Canada (where i live) The person didnt even try to acknowledge the truth if it. They just said Canada sucks and moved on.

  24. I don't disagree, but at the same time people can't stop trying to make things better. I would hope eventually positive change can occur if people keep fighting for it

  25. Yeah I mean I once saw a meme posted in a conservative space online that said basically "Q: how many children have to die before you will consider more restrictions on guns? A: All of them"

  26. What's all fucked up is foxnewsnation is blaming this on Biden now, for not being a nazi on the southern border. Why? Because the shooter is Hispanic.

  27. The only people that think "both sides are the same" are Republican apologists and folks trying to edgy by lumping them together.

  28. Sadly a 60/40 split for Democrats is all but impossible unless there are shifts in voting patterns in smaller states. The few control the many :(

  29. Democrats are frustrating because their right wing members hold back progress. Republicans are bad because their entire party tries to reverse progress.

  30. voters that the democratic party usually has to count on are quite fickle. The best statement on voting i've ever seen was a comment from a bloke who said: "The primary is where you vote for what you want. The general is where you vote for what you can get."

  31. I cant think of a single thing ever done by republicans that was good for citizens and not done for the benefit of big business and their donors. I'm willing to accept there may be an arguable instance but I dont know what it is.

  32. "Both sides of the same" is someone telling you they are a Republican. It's because Fox News plays down all of the bad things Republicans do by trying to say Democrats do it too. You'll notice any time there's an R controversy, Ds have already been blamed or will soon be blamed for something similar. The constant finger-pointing from the right makes it look like everyone is approximately equally corrupt.

  33. Both-sides-are-the-sameism qualifies as my litmus test on intelligence because it's argumentative low hanging fruit. Rote cynicism like that requires and demonstrates almost no critical thinking skills.

  34. Before Obama, it was an arguable matter. Since Obama, it is not even close. Sadly, even a president who refuses to legalize marijuana and cancel student loans is light years ahead of the republicans today

  35. Literally nothing has passed this year and for the good half of last year because of push back form republicans. This country is lost and is slowly deteriorating in my opinion.

  36. Well… wouldn’t we need a 62/38 split because two certain unnamed “democratic” senators would probably say they were apposed to “abusing a supermajority” or something?

  37. I've always been pro-gun. Growing up in a rural area surrounded by outdoorsman it was pretty much inevitable. I'm most definitely not a "gun nut", but I never really blamed the gun in these tragedies.

  38. I had to take a hunter safety course and test to get a hunting license in my state. Didn’t have to do anything of the sort to buy my first gun. Doesn’t make sense.

  39. I have and always will be pro gun but I believe you can be pro gun and pro gun control at the same time. Not every single person over the age of 18 should be allowed to purchase one.

  40. You’re right about alot but 99.9% is absolutely not true. There are so many people in this world who are responsible gun owners, but theres a larger amount of people who are not. I know ALOT who are responsible, i also hear about shootings in my city ALL the time. There have been 5 incidents in my neighborhood alone the past 10 years I’ve lived here. Im not from a rural area, i’m in a city with millions of people and its INSANE how many people kill others with guns daily who are not mass shooters

  41. Just look at the facts. Gun Deaths per capita by state. It's not a coincidence that all the states with the lowest gun deaths are blue voting states, that vote towards more restrictive access to guns. All the states with the highest gun deaths are red voting states, that vote towards relaxed gun laws and easy access for all.

  42. Thanks for posting this data. What really stood out was that most of the gun deaths were suicide, which people don't usually think of when they hear gun deaths. Just having access to a gun makes it much more likely that you will die by suicide.

  43. I plotted the gun ownership rate and the gun death rates into a scatter plot using the data from your source and it's pretty obvious that there's a correlation:

  44. I would guess that there are more confounding variables there that explain the trend, most notably culture, class, wealth inequality, other crime trends, and differences in law enforcement doctrine.

  45. Alaskan here, would like to point out that we’re number one in gun deaths because of suicides (predominantly among the native Alaskan community), which science has attributed to the lack of sunlight in winter months (which goes hand in hand with increased drug and alcohol abuse). If you look at states ranked by homicides per capita; alaska isn’t even in the top 20.

  46. I wonder if Minnesota could be used as a model. We have a very strong gun culture here, but low deaths. Our gun laws are not overly restrictive, either. Jus Just background checks and a permit to purchase pistol-grip firearms.

  47. I am not proud of my state on this one. Mental health care in Montana is scarce and if you can get it very expensive.

  48. Or your assumption is correlation without causality. Those same Dem areas have significantly different types of people living there. There are PLENTY of places that are red that aren’t killing people.

  49. But you're not trying to find out WHY so many people want to murder other people or finding ways to detect and treat these people so they don't get an urge to kill others anymore, you're just removing one kind of weapon.

  50. According to the NRA, the Secret Service is taking control of the hall during Trump's speech tomorrow and is prohibiting attendees from having firearms, firearms accessories and knives. Ammunition, laser pointers, pepper spray, toy guns, backpacks and other items also won't be allowed.

  51. Is there any hypothesis about why? My understanding of content of the ban is that it was more focused on the form (such as type of grip) than the function (such as rate of fire) of the weapons in question, which makes this outcome surprising. Inform me if I'm off base here.

  52. Its entirely marketing and culture shift. Gun ownership is skyrocketing among youth due to market saturation, to the point that there are now at least 3 distinct subcommunities within gun pop culture, "Fudds" who like big bolt actions and revolvers because they hit hard and don't jam, whatever-works guys who get whatever best for cheapest, and tactibros who kit everything to the 9s.

  53. The ban seemed to work because the 1990s were a time of severely elevated crime rates (a possible explanation for

  54. man it makes me genuinely sad that I have to scroll this far to find a comment asking "first of all why would it help and second of all isn't the ban on meaningless features?"

  55. My guess as to why is because more recently, the media discovered that mass shootings were financially beneficial to report on, and the sensationalized coverage led to a social contagion effect. There’s some research supporting this too; we already know that media coverage can influence copycat suicides, for instance.

  56. It's nonsense. School shootings have increased in frequency for largely social reasons. Pick a President since Clinton and say "School shooting frequency has increased since (President)" and you'd likely be right.

  57. Even better, it grandfathered in everything everybody already owned, which I think was mentioned in the article. So, for the first couple of years it did more or less nothing.

  58. A fix doesn’t have to be perfect to be helpful. The GOP will always say shit like “gun bans don’t stop shootings, someone can still get them illegally”. And while this is true, it is also true to say “gun bans stop more or even most shootings, so they are still helpful.”

  59. This, they don't want to ban guns because bans don't work, then turn around and ban abortion, a practice that has existed since before there were guns.

  60. This same sort of argument came out when it was found that the Covid vaccines didn’t prevent Covid. Letting the perfect being the enemy of the good for the sake of furthering a politically motivated conclusion.

  61. 100% this. Let’s STOP the rhetoric that we’re coming to take everyone’s guns, that just makes everyone freak out. We can’t “solve” the problem, instead, let’s look at reasonable gun control that would help.

  62. THIS. It's the same bullshit around the vaccine being "worthless" because it isn't 100% effective with zero risk/side-effects.

  63. That’s conservatives stance on literally everything. Take masks for example - they aren’t 100% effective at stopping Covid so why bother at all?! they have binary black and white perspective on absolutely everything. No room for any context or nuance whatsoever, never mind harm reduction and mitigation

  64. Updating the building codes won't stop ALL household electrical fires from happening, so we might as well do nothing because there is no solution that will stop all of them!

  65. Mass shootings tho are good for police budgets and weapons sales. How can they hit their number$ if violence goes down?

  66. “No strong evidence shows that the ban’s presence or its end caused the change in mass shooting deaths, but many studies find a correlation.” - From the linked article

  67. Incidentally, the year the ban expired Facebook also started. The year before the ban expired Myspace started and US invaded Iraq.

  68. The majority of mass shootings are carried out with handguns. The worst school shooting to date, Virginia Tech, was carried out with two handguns. The AWB did nothing to prevent handgun ownership, and under the AWB two teenagers were able to get firearms banned by the AWB to carry out a school shooting in Columbine.

  69. “No strong evidence shows that the ban’s presence or its end caused the change in mass shooting deaths, but many studies find a correlation.”

  70. Mass shootings fell a very small amount when the ban was implemented, and then jumped way up when it ended. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason they went up from 2005-2015 was due to societal rot caused by mass adoption of the internet and social media, late-stage capitalism/huge economic crashes, and mainstream news becoming even more greedy and evil by covering shootings like they cover sporting events.

  71. What else happened in that era? The internet became wildly available to everyone which helped share stories and spread radical extremism. Lunatics saw other lunatics do it, something they may not of seen if not for internet and decided to mimic. Are we saying no one had a mass murder motive until the AR-15 was available? I find that difficult to believe.

  72. Something definitely is going on in recent decades that drives these people to murder. It's not like firearms were heavily restricted in the US prior to 1994, heck my granddad had his service M1 after WWII, and he was not alone. That thing is a beast compared to an AR-15.

  73. “Mostly true”….yet they also state “No strong evidence shows that the ban’s presence or its end caused the change in mass shooting deaths, but many studies find a correlation.”

  74. Someone should check out the wiki article on the Federal Assault Weapons Ban cause it has pretty much the opposite opinion -> “Studies have shown the ban had little effect on overall criminal activity, firearm homicides, and the lethality of gun crimes. There is tentative evidence that the frequency of mass shootings may have slightly decreased while the ban was in effect.”

  75. “No strong evidence shows that the ban’s presence or its end caused the change in mass shooting deaths, but many studies find a correlation.”

  76. Yea it's ALSO during the recession timeframe where some people have been affected ever since. Unhappy population makes unhappy decisions.

  77. I don't think it has much of an impact. This graph demonstrates it. There might be some relation, but considering that a lot of the ban dealt with cosmetic features, I'm highly skeptical of any claim that it decreased mass shootings or could decrease them.

  78. It's important to note that all the references for physical data are not from reputable sources. Secondly, during the ban, rates increased between 2000 and 2004.

  79. The bill of rights and constitution was written under the expressed condition that such country be of a religious and moral people. Obviously with the way the world has changed the second amendment needs to be changed.

  80. Mass shootings have also tripled since the hit single “Rock Your Body” by Justin Timberlake came out. There is basically nothing in the assault weapons ban that would have prevented any of these shootings.

  81. I don't think the amount of mass shootings corrolates to the assault weapon ban. banning certain weapons like assault rifle's doesn't change the fact that a semi auto rifle can shoot of just as many rounds sometimes more in the same time as an automatic firearm. what ya'll should be doing is putting restrictions on all firearms and investing more in mental health.

  82. Same tired political theater. We are aghast at mass shootings, but gloss over the daily death toll caused by other firearms from non assault weapons aka pistols. The horse left the barn a while back on assault weapons. Only one way to get it back in and that is never going to happen.

  83. We need to define mass shooting. Wikipedia has an impressive list of mass shootings and I think the criteria to make the list is at least one shot fired and 4 people injured/killed. The list is mostly filled with gang related crimes and tragic murder-suicide of families. One incident was about a gang member shooting in the air and the other gang running away and getting injured from falling.

  84. There were plenty of shooter games long before Call of Duty that were basically identical, so no, they couldn’t.

  85. As a psychiatric nurse I worked with many murderers ,I heard their stories. Killing people with knife or bat is hard work, people get tired, they give up. Killing with a gun is easy, far too easy for any human brain to truly comprehend and yes, that includes you. Guns are evil.

  86. "No strong evidence shows that the ban’s presence or its end caused the change in mass shooting deaths, but many studies find a correlation."

  87. Why the fuck does getting a minimum wage job require a background check but buying a GOD DAMN ASSAULT RIFLE doesn't? What? Why the fuck are we prosecuting rape victims for having abortions? What?

  88. Love how Joe Biden didn't bother talk about the cowardly police who waited outside to let the killer murder people. We're supposed pass gun control and hope police will protect people... when we already see that police are too cowardly to stop killers even when they are already on site when the killer starts murdering people?

  89. The ATF won't even go after straw purchases, for God's sake. And they're already illegal as hell. What we need here is for law enforcement to just do its job.

  90. If we have to go through training and safety tests to operate a motor vehicle why can’t we do the same and mental tests for a firearm? I have no problem going through those loops in order to obtain a firearm.

  91. Correlation ≠ causation though. If we’re going to talk about legislative solutions - which we absolutely should - we need to start with

  92. The ban just encouraged people to buy them. The ban made companies rise up to skirt around the ban. The ban encouraged people to buy them before it happened again. The ban didnt even ban the most common weapons used in mass shootings. The ban is dumb.

  93. The same people commiting these mass shootings could have simply used guns that didn't fall under the AWB and they still would've happened.

  94. Actually mass shootings have more then tripled when cellphones and social media platforms came about. That's the problem not the gun.

  95. Either ban all guns or none. The biggest mass shooting in a school has been done with 2 handguns. It doesn't fucking matter what guns they have.

  96. The 90s is also when wealth inequality began to balloon and the circumstances that led to the 2008 crash came to be (repeal of glass-steagall in the late 90s among other things).

  97. I’ll be curious to see what, if anything, Biden does with this new found momentum for gun change. The last terrible school shooting of this magnitude was sandy hook, and we all saw the fruits of Obama’s labor on gun change: literally nothing lol. Years ago we blamed Donald trump for the shootings under his term, the people who died from Covid under his term, but I don’t see people holding Biden to the same standard of responsibility? You’d think he would push congress to make a real change on gun laws.

  98. Republicans keep saying it's a mental health problem but hear me out. What if all these shootings is having a direct impact on people's mental health?

  99. He's been pretty clear where he stands on this one. Back in the primary, he was told "people will say, Biden is coming for your assault rifles" - "Bingo", replied Biden.

  100. The 94 assault weapons ban didn’t ban “assault weapons”. It primarily banned combinations of certain cosmetic features. You could still buy a rifle that was functionally the same.

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