Elon Musk claims there has been no crash in Tesla's Full Self-Driving Beta over a year into the program

  1. I’ll never get above 96. Did I pay for nothing. Will it ever get released? I’m not positive on Tesla at this point.

  2. Yes, but also a credit to the unique methodology developed and applied to select the testers, i.e., the safety score approach.

  3. Every since FSD beta got me terrible curb rash (so bad I was worried I destroyed the suspension/ bent something), I'm much less likely to let it complete close maneuvers.

  4. This is less about the safety of the autopilot and more about how well the beta program was introduced - showing testing this sort of thing in a live public arena can be done safely.

  5. And this was, I think, Elon's point. He wasn't trying to say FSD is there yet, because he knows it isn't. He was pushing back on the idea that this is incredibly dangerous.

  6. Didn’t someone here say they were rear ended when FSD slammed on the brakes in an intersection where it turned red while in the intersection? I remember other people corroborating that FSD (that version at least) slams on the brakes if the camera has vision of of the stoplight when it turns red, regardless of the safety of the situation.

  7. It also doesn't consider the fact that they get the best of the best of us driving them 😉, people who hopefully read the fine print and understand the repercussions and liability of misuse and abuse. I used to do flight instruction and currently do flight test engineering so I test this thing like it’s job is to try to kill me at any second. It actually takes a lot more focus and is a lot more exhausting than driving without it and I do miss my radar terribly. Still, Rewarding to be a part of and with every update there are continuous major improvements. Light at the end off the tunnel 😎

  8. Seems to be the consensus and reading stories like these is why I chose not to add it when buying. I do like the subscription idea though, at least I can test it out from time to time as it improves.

  9. This happened to me last night and I'm kicking myself over it. Freeway entrance with barrier on the left, disengages and crunch barely half a second to react. Still very drivable but bumper damaged and ultrasonic sensor disabled. 100% my fault i suppose :(

  10. Maybe Tesla should include a sticker “Sorry I’m in the FSD beta program.” That you can stick on the bumper 😊

  11. There was a video posted a couple of months where a guy had the guy go left of center on a curve when there was a car coming. Driver over corrected and crashed the car. But the accident wouldn’t have happened absent FSD There’s also a different accident claim on the NHSTA website.

  12. Come on, I saw a great deal of improvement lately. Been using for about 4 plus months now. I use it every chance I get, cars on the road or not. Yes, I intervene sometimes but most times, it just works.

  13. Not always, depends on the scenario. Furthermore, Tesla states they count all crashes for up to 5 seconds after Autopilot is disengaged.

  14. It just shows the current FSD drivers are being very careful with the software. Not that the software is not accident prone.

  15. I’m really curious want the calculated chance of a 100,99 or 98 having an at fault accident in any given year. I assume it approaches 100% over time (sooner or later we all end up getting in an accident). I’d bet Tesla had those numbers or a pretty good aproximation before the rollout

  16. Which is what the current fight is about. No one believes FSD is perfect, however many FUD spreaders and some regulators think FSD is dangerous in the hands of "non-professional" testers which is not the case. People have clear understanding what it can and cannot do. Everyone took a very annoying driving test and there were plenty of videos on youtube setting correct expectations before we signed up the program. I think Tesla is being pretty cautious about the roll out, however there's a huge segment of anti-FSD people out there calling Tesla reckless.

  17. That’s the point. Why would anyone be claiming beta software is good enough on its own? If that’s the case, there would be robotaxis driving around with no one up front.

  18. I would say the biggest risk of accident with it, is it not understanding other drivers/creating situations in which it gets hit more so than it crashing into things.

  19. Not surprised. I rarely ever turn FSD on if there’s cars around. Way too unpredictable. My car 100% would have slammed into another car during a left turn the other day if I didn’t intervene.

  20. Agreed to an extent. I've definitely needed to intervene but each instance hadn't been life-threatening if I had done nothing. Sometimes I'll intervene if I simply don't like its driving style at the time despite it not being dangerous.

  21. Well, there are crashes and then there are crashes. T-boning another car while running a red is one thing, sitting at a stop light and being rear-end is something else..

  22. I think we need to align on terminology. If “crash” means a full blown car on car accident while FSD beta is engaged, then he’s correct. However, if crash is broadened to any type of vehicle damage caused by FSD, then I believe his claim is somewhat false.

  23. Correct. I would not classify curb rash as an accident either. Likely only counting situations where there was actual contact between two vehicles, significant damage to the FSD car, etc.

  24. That's not a crash. Example: in Germany if you sell your car, you are forced by law to indicate to the prospect owner all accidents a car has been. This would not be classified as one

  25. Pretty sure a driver blamed FSD Beta for a crash in an NHTSA complaint, but I guess Elon isn’t counting that?

  26. Hmm. Interesting. While I love the Beta, it has its faults. There’s a red light that for some reason the car keeps trying to accelerate through. I’ve waited until the last comfortable moment to go hard on my brakes. I would like to see what it does but i obviously don’t want to chance it if other cars are around.

  27. When FSD will actively avoid dangerous conditions, such as unpredictability of other drivers, then we should all be praising this software. Not that we shouldn't praise it already, it's mind-blowing. But I am still a better driver. FSD is a great toy, but not worth the money until it saves my life. It will take a live saving incident to make me a true believer and I look forward to seeing this come true. I have no doubt that it will, but the current FSD is a scary driver at best, and not to be trusted.

  28. Issue with the title.. did Elon make the claim, or did Ross Gerber make the claim and Elon just said the statement was factually true?

  29. The latter judging by the embedded tweet. But if Elon has confirmed it (which he seems to have), is there a meaningful difference?

  30. It’s certainly tried to kill me a few times. But like others I’m paying a lot more attention and don’t try to spouse around others or in difficult situations.

  31. I think the point is that that one is disputed. The only information we have is from the person that posted the video, and there's been no verification that FSD was even engaged. The driver claims it was, but tons of people claim their cars had "unintended acceleration" when what actually happened is they hit the gas instead of the brakes.

  32. That incident has always seemed suspicious to me, could be that Tesla looked at the data and it was the person not FSD that made the mistake.

  33. Looks like the driver applied too much torque, disengaged AP (no way to know if it was FSD or AP), went over the line, woke up (not saying they were asleep, just perked up), and then overcorrected to the right.

  34. Well that is frightening as all get out! I just posted on this thread about FSD being able to save my life from accident being my personal measure of it's success, but I did not mean through dangerous paranoia. This raises too many red flags, which version was/is this, was the driver paying attention, ect. Seems to me like they could have themselves predicted the software glitches with oncoming traffic on a two lane road, but they didn't. Maybe it serves them right. Autopilot was one thing before joining FSB Beta, but now we are all in a different ballpark, with more responsibility. Please be attentive to this software.

  35. We also receive a crash alert anytime a crash is reported to us from the fleet, which may include data about whether Autopilot was active at the time of impact. To ensure our statistics are conservative, we count any crash in which Autopilot was deactivated within 5 seconds before impact, and we count all crashes in which the incident alert indicated an airbag or other active restraint deployed.

  36. I remember seeing some Tech guy on youtube fairly recently going over a subject labelled "Why do tech companies lie?"

  37. Wtf is so hard to believe? There were only like 1000 cars until very recently, and even now there ain’t that many.

  38. When you have to watch it like you are teaching your teenager to drive, select only the most attentive of drivers and easiest of locales to have it.. I don't think you can claim fsd is what's not crashing 😂

  39. That’s the point. Nobody is saying FSD itself is avoiding the accidents. If it was, it wouldn’t be in beta.

  40. This is hilarious. I have personally prevented 3 crashes in FSD with my own interventions. You can't tell me that 100% of all have been prevented by interventions as well.

  41. er i paid 200 to try fsd and it literally hit another car. havent even trusted auto pilot since then

  42. 2020 MXP with FSD beta here. I love it!!! Improvements are coming at a rapid pace considering the task at hand. You couldn’t solve this problem without a large Beta fleet.

  43. When the system turns itself off 0.5 seconds before impact, of course "FSD didn't cause the accident"...

  44. More reason I'm so pleased Cummings is out. If it's this safe, there is no reason to halt or stifle progress. Tesla is doing the right thing by introducing it gradually. It's accustoming people and more importantly, authorities to the idea. Good for them.

  45. You're probably being downvoted because the software itself really isn't safe at all. Accidents are only being prevented by a smallish set of vigilant drivers who intervene before it causes accidents.

  46. Yah, who would of thought? Especially when there isn't many FSD cars on the road and the ones that are on the road need a super high driving profile, so only super safe people get to use FSD. This is all meaningless BS.

  47. No, it's not. Tons of articles have been written and the NHTSA has stated they think it's unsafe. No accidents in a year is a demonstrable piece of evidence that it's not unsafe. That they're within their engineering tolerances and doing what they're supposed to.

  48. Interesting since I’ve been in almost 3 close calls and exit immediately like when it eats a curb or starts going in a different lane to make a turn!

  49. Someone rear ended me at a red light with FSD Beta engaged while I was showing it to a friend :( Luckily there wasnt any damage, and I would imagine it doesnt fall into the category of a crash.

  50. wasnt it enrolled for the 100% safety driver? makes sense there has been no crash with the safest driver behind the wheel. Still impressive.

  51. Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

  52. I know I won't get it for some time. I'm stuck at 90 and won't budge.....why.....because I have to pick up my kids from school daily and they require us to line up very close to each car to make room. So I'm getting dinged daily by the system and that is the major part that is lowering my score. There is nothing I can do about it, I've sent message to TESLA & Elon on twitter, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. Until they can fix this or figure out a way around it, then I will remain at 90.

  53. I think he missed the video of the beta car driving thru the trees haha but yeah it's a great program. Technically I suppose it was the human driver that took it through the trees, but that's only because they had to intervene as the car was veering into the other lane for a head-on collision. So does that count? I suppose it should.

  54. Cause it disengages before a crash lmao. I just have FSD, not beta. But it knows when to suddenly and unexpectedly disable itself right as I'm being thrown at a curve

  55. With a statement like that he's tempting the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing! lol. As a programmer who often sees things going completely wrong as soon they're confidently spoken about, I'd be waaaaay too nervous to say this.

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